<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>I would say it is the commonality of the language. Basically, if two handiness of that fashion is common in the language, then I would suggest keeping the movement symbols. I know that some sign languages do use "2" on the left and "5" on the right to mean 25. For those languages, just having a progression of hand symbols to mean one hand might not be good. That's why I wrote various ways since it is up to the language users to determine which is best. </div><div><br></div><div>Adam</div><div><br>On May 29, 2013, at 11:40 AM, "Charles Butler" <<a href="mailto:chazzer3332000@YAHOO.COM">chazzer3332000@YAHOO.COM</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:14pt"><div><span>Feedback, as a 10 (fist) has no handedness in this rotation, how can one presume that this is a one-handed sign when one only sees it in isolation. <br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.6667px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br><span></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.6667px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>For me, without the rotation, I can't be sure that it is not a left-handed 10 and a right-handed 6.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.6667px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.6667px;
font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Is it solely the closeness of the handshapes? <br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.6667px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br><span></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 18.6667px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div>Charles Butler<br><a href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a><br>240-764-5748<br>Clear writing moves business forward.<br></div> <div style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Valerie Sutton <<a href="mailto:signwriting@MAC.COM">signwriting@MAC.COM</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:40 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: Honduran numbers 11 through 19<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv0061776502"><div>SignWriting List<div>May 29, 2013</div><div><br></div><div>Hello Jonathan and Adam!</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you, Jonathan, for your postings and questions, and thank you, Adam for this excellent feedback…</div><div><br></div><div>I agree with Adam, and could not have explained it better - this is really good to see the different possible ways of writing the same sign.</div><div><br></div><div>The third and fourth examples that Adam shows, without rotation symbols, but just showing the positions, is easier to read for many people…</div><div><br></div><div>Simple writing is a wonderful thing…Years ago we
used to write the ASL numbers with more symbols, but now we tend to just write positions…</div><div><br></div><div>Also, Jonathan, it appears that your export/import from SignWriter Studio to SignPuddle came in as SignText documents, rather than individual signs as if they were written in SignMaker, so the SignWriter Studio program seems to be exporting and importing text documents even when they are dictionary entries? Something to think about from a programming perspective -</div><div><br></div><div>I will look at the other signs too later today -</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for posting questions to the List - keep posting as much as you need to!</div><div><br></div><div>Val ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>------</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On May 29, 2013, at 9:18 AM, Adam Frost <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:icemandeaf@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank" href="mailto:icemandeaf@GMAIL.COM">icemandeaf@GMAIL.COM</a>> wrote:</div><br class="yiv0061776502Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;">I couldn't view your attachments, but I was able to look in SignPuddle and find what you were referring to. I wrote 11 and 16 with a could of examples each. The first is how I would positions the symbols with the one that you had written with respect to the movement arrows. Even though the rotation arrows mean no traveling, the beginning and ending hands should be placed at the beginning and ending of the arrow as best as can be done. The second example is the same thing except I use a different movement symbol which makes it so that the beginning and ending read left to right. Since the movements are both the same, I have found that it is easier for people who are used to reading from left to right to read. The last two examples are using the idea of "fingerspelling" in that the change in palm orientation and handshape are enough to know what the
in-between movements are. The first one is for horizontal writing and the last one is for vertical writing. I personally like the last example best. ;-)<div><br></div><div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><attachment.png><br><div id="yiv0061776502"><div><div><div class="yiv0061776502AppleOriginalContents"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;"><div> <img id="yiv0061776502canvasimage" src="cid:(null)"></div><div>Adam</div><div><br><div><div>On May 29, 2013, at 8:04 AM, Jonathan Duncan wrote:</div><br class="yiv0061776502Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
<div>
Hi list,<br>
a Deaf friend and me are entering some signs into to Honduras
Puddle, we are writing the signs in SignWriter Studio then putting
them up on the puddle. <br>
<br>
<a rel="nofollow" class="yiv0061776502moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=16&sTrm=*">http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=16&sTrm=*</a><br>
<br>
The audience will be is a hearing people who are new to sign
language and SignWriting and Deaf new to SignWriting. Also latter we
will be adding some signs that are not used in all parts of Honduras
so we need them to be readable by the Deaf that are seeing the sign
for the first time too. We are trying to balance between writing in
a way that is clear to people who have never seen the sign before
and writing simply (without many symbols) so that it will be easy to
write them the same way by hand.<br>
<br>
Please feel free to look through the puddle and let us know if
anything is writing in way that looks wrong or that can't be
performed or alternate writings. We will be asking a few questions
on some that we are feeling unsure about<br>
<br>
These are numbers eleven through fifteen. The fist twisting inward
showing the palm of the hand.<br>
<br>
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These are numbers sixteen through nineteen. The fist twisting
outward showing the back of the hand.<br>
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<br>
Are the symbols positioned in a readable fashion?<br>
<br>
<div class="yiv0061776502moz-signature">-- <br>
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<div> </div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><acehdahg.png><br><div id="yiv0061776502"><div><div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="yiv0061776502moz-signature"><div class="yiv0061776502moz-signature"><div><div>email: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca" target="_blank" href="mailto:duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca">duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca</a><br>
<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:joyoduncan@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:joyoduncan@gmail.com">joyoduncan@gmail.com</a><br>
Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171<br>
Tel USA: (347)875-8442 <br>
Skype: yojoduncan<br>
<br>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriterstudio.com/">SignWriter Studio</a></div>
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