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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hello Eduardo and
sw-friends, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I agree with ... <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>At first glance it might
look as if it could be a simplification to not write the contact symbol. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>On the other hand –
if you write a sign without the contact star – you as the scribe would
probably have no problem... <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This is not the case for
the reader. He will hesitate .. he has do make a decision – “contact”
vs. “just close together” <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Just like Eduarda
describes perfectly I would not follow this method. I am writing Signwriting –
documents now for mre than a decade. I would not want to write a sign without
the star if I want to inform the reader that this sign is performed with
contact. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>But it is as Valerie
points out every two months – feel free to write as you want and time
will teach us ... smile <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>L.I.F.E. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>All best <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Stefan <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>Von:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'> SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Im
Auftrag von </span></b>Eduardo Trápani<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Gesendet:</span></b> Sonntag, 11. August 2013
01:11<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>An:</span></b>
SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Betreff:</span></b> Re: Evolution to
Simplified SignWriting</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>We remove touch star on all signs that have just one
contact<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>and hands are already close enough to show that they
are in contact,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>include our logo for <i><span style='font-style:italic'>Libras
Escrita</span></i>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>See below:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><img width=200 height=162 id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01CE9643.51FA3390" alt="Imagem inline 2"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>First of all, I'm just a beginner. I find this
"simplification" a bit confusing, I wouldn't know how to do the sign
on the right if I had read it alone. I mean, is it *that* obvious for everybody
that the hands are so close that they touch?<br>
<br>
See for example the beginning of ASL for "get (receive)":<br>
<br>
<img width=65 height=116 id="_x0000_i1026"
src="cid:image002.gif@01CE9643.51FA3390"><br>
<br>
Or the one for "sign":<br>
<br>
<img width=67 height=97 id="_x0000_i1027"
src="cid:image003.gif@01CE9643.51FA3390"><br>
<br>
The hands are more or less at the same distance as in the Libras Escrita logo,
but they do not touch. So "close enough" is not a clear enough rule
in SW (and that is not an issue if we don't expect to be able to exchange and
study texts from other sign languages).<br>
<br>
I think that in signs where hands touch but they are not right by each other,
the star should not be removed.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><img width=200 height=160 id="_x0000_i1028"
src="cid:image004.jpg@01CE9643.51FA3390" alt="Imagem inline 3"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>For somebody that does not know the sign, it might be
hard to decide if they do or do not touch.<br>
<br>
I didn't know about this simplified SignWriting. For movement it's ok, but I
would try to avoid removing the star unless it is completely obvious.<br>
<br>
And, should the star be removed, I would write the hands so that they actually
touch (no space between them):<br>
<br>
<img width=33 height=40 id="_x0000_i1029"
src="cid:image005.gif@01CE9643.51FA3390"><br>
<br>
Otherwise, for the sake of simplification, the system adds a complexity, with a
not-so-clear rule (if hands in "libras escrita" touch so could the
hands in the ASL signs above), and it does no longer mirror the signs so well.
*The* beauty of SW is that you can look at it and read it (even if you don't
know the sign language involved or the sign itself).<br>
<br>
I think that, removing the star without clear rules, makes SignWriting evolve
into a sort of abjad (consonantal alphabet) where the reader has to provide the
missing bits (in Arabic, the vowels). Meaning also that the reader has to know
the language pretty well. Reading dictionary entries from other languages will
be harder. It is evolution, but I don't know if it makes things simpler, it
surely does not for beginners like me. And we really need a simple *and*
coherent system for real adoption. I guess we've all had our share of writing
systems with rules that do not always apply, systems where it's not enough to
be native, you have to stop and think before you write.<br>
<br>
For other type of texts it might be safe to assume the reader is fluent in the
language and will know how to read it but for teaching and learning ... I'd
really think twice before globally removing single stars in "close
enough" configurations, or asking students to do it.<br>
<br>
Eduardo.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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