<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">SignWriting List<div>September 8, 2013</div><div><br></div><div>THANK YOU, to everyone!</div><div><br></div><div>This is soooo good for SignWriting, to show the different skilled writers' interpretations and writings - All three versions are excellent because they are readable and usable and I think outstanding. We need to accept that there are differences in the way people think and translate, and of course there are some norms that develop over time, but we also need to celebrate the differences and let them be as they are…Just this topic alone could be the subject for a dissertation, following the writing of three to five skilled SignWriters in one sign language. And Nancy, Adam and Cherie have written the most ASL Literature…along with a handful of others…so it is a small and select group ;-))</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you Cherie, Nancy, Adam... and Charles, thank you for your input - and Stefan - thank you for your questions - I will read your message next to give you my input on how different writers translate - it was different in each case is my guess - Val ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>---------</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On Sep 8, 2013, at 7:09 AM, Cherie Wren <<a href="mailto:cwterp@YAHOO.COM">cwterp@YAHOO.COM</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt; ">hahaha. I sent my response in before reading this.. I changed WITH to HOWrhq. Writing is different for regular writing and signwriting. in regular writing I write from left to right across my paper (diagonally up to match palm facing) in signwriting I write down in columns, and so the same on my palm. I actually cheated and started with the translator, but then took it into the sign text editor and modified some of it.<br><br>cherie<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Stefan Wöhrmann <<a href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM">stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, September 8, 2013 5:41 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> AW: help with writing an ASL sentence for an academic paper<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv8939030587">
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<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;" lang="EN-GB">Hi Valerie, Nancy, Adam, Maria, Guido and friends of
the sw-list ;-)) , </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;" lang="EN-GB">I love to discuss this kind of documents. SignWriting
is such a wonderdull tool to discuss different aspects of any given SL
performance on a solid foundation. </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;" lang="EN-GB">This is a typical example. Somebody tries to
translate a given concept (idea, phrase, sentence) to ASL ( or
DGS...whatsoever..) </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;" lang="EN-GB">Now different competent signers may offer their w r
i t t e n answer to this problem. </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;" lang="EN-GB">What can be seen again and again ... there is not the
one and only possible translation. </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN">Even if</span></font></span><span class="yiv8939030587shorttext"><span lang="EN"> </span></span><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><span lang="EN">the
sequence</span></span><span class="yiv8939030587shorttext"><span lang="EN"> </span></span><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><span lang="EN">of signs</span></span><span class="yiv8939030587shorttext"><span lang="EN"> </span></span><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><span lang="EN">may</span></span><span class="yiv8939030587shorttext"><span lang="EN"> </span></span><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><span lang="EN">be
the same</span> there are still lots of possibilities to make individual
(perhaps meaningfull) differences ... In this case the facial expressions... </span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN">The good point is that we can discuss our “examples”
in detail. We can learn from each other. We can look at the documents as long
as we want to (compared to video ... ;-) </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN">We can easily rewrite or change the document
if we wish to. </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN">Looking at your document Nancy – I have
a question. (Same question goes to Adam ;-)) )</span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN"> I tried to rewrite your sentence with the US-
SignPuddle Dictionary. I do not get the same signs this way. Does this mean
that you write this kind of document from scratch with SignText? </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN">Nancy, I would like to discuss your spelling
of “Language” - the way you wrote it both hands move back and
forth at the same time. Is this the way you want to sign it? </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN">Another spelling question: “written”
second sign in the right column. Left palm facing you, right hand is moving
diagonally forward instead down or to the right ... mh ... compared to your
spelling of SignWriting (left hand palm up, right hand writing zigzag on the
palm) the first spelling seems to be somehow inconsistent. (Although there is
no doubt about that everybody should be able to understand the idea –
smile) </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN">Now a discussion apart from SignWriting and
spelling... </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN">Both of you (Nancy and Adam) write a sign for
“with” –mh – (Maybe just because Maria asked for a
sentence including this “with”)</span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN">Do not know ASL but here is my question –
from my point of idea “with” is kind of “with a pen”
or “with my friend” or...”with the delegs Editor” but
“written with (????) SignWriting? </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN">I am looking forward to your answers. </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN">All best </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN">Stefan </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8939030587hps"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;" lang="EN"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;" lang="EN-GB"> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal" style="text-align:center;" align="center"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">
<hr tabindex="-1" align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold;" lang="EN-GB">Von:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;" lang="EN-GB">
SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:SW-<a href="mailto:L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Im
Auftrag von </span></b>Romero<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Gesendet</span></b></span></font><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
font-weight:bold;">:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;"> Sonntag, 8. September 2013 01:56<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">An:</span></b>
<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Betreff:</span></b> Re: help with writing an
ASL sentence for an academic paper</span></font></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"><img id="yiv8939030587_x0039_3320fb6-9613-4208-9443-c41931f80c32" height="431" width="242" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:1.373463290@web142805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"></span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Here's an example of an example:</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Facial expression eyebrows up, index finger points down 2x (This)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Fingerspelling for ASL</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">2 horizontal lines for a pause</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Sign for AMERICA (fingers intertwined, making a small horizontal
circle)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Sign for SIGN (2 index fingers travel in vertical oblong circle,
alternating)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Sign for LANGUAGE ( "L" handshapes facing floor moving
outward while rotating)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">2 horizontal lines for a pause</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Sign for SHOW (flat left hand, right index touching palm of L hand,
both move forward together twice)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Sign for WRITING (flat L palm, R hand as if holding pen moves diagonal
on floor plane, 2x)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Sign for WITH (2 "A" handshapes together, baby fingers toward
the floor</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Sign for SIGN (shown previously)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Sign for WRITING (former sign for WRITE with zigzag writing movement.
This is only one variation)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">2 horizontal lines for a pause</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Fingerspelled S and W (another way to sign SIGN WRITING)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Thick horizontal line for the end of the sentence.</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">On Sep 7, 2013, at 4:41 PM, maria galea <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:signwriting.maria@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:signwriting.maria@gmail.com">signwriting.maria@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"><br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Dear list members particularly ASL users,</span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">A friend of mine who happens to be a linguist in the field of writing
systems of the world is hoping to include the mentioning of SignWriting as a
writing system of the world, and he has asked if someone could translate the
following sentence into ASL SignWriting:</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;">"This is an American sign language example written with
SignWriting "</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;">If you could add sign-to-meaning correspondences, syntactic
factors, and lexical selection considerations would be helpful for him.</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;">Thank you! It would be great if SignWriting makes its way into
the academic field of writing systems, so thank you very much for helping out
with this (i can't do it myself, because I'm not an ASL user)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;">best regards to everyone!</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;">maria</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv8939030587MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </blockquote></div> </div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>