<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:tahoma, new york, times, serif;font-size:14pt"><div><span>Only a partial answer "with the Delegs Editor" is parallel to "with SignWriting". SignWriting is a methodology that can be a program (the SignPuddle) or by hand so "with" is the appropriate preposition. </span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: tahoma, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 19px; font-family: tahoma, 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; "><span>The zig-zag movement on SignWriting is stylistic form for finishing a sentence. The double motion of "writing" above is imbedded in a sentence so one is continuing a thought. It is not inconsistent if one thinks of the zig-zag as a double motion with a "written" return. The motion may be
exactly the same. </span></div><div></div><div> </div><div>Charles Butler<br>chazzer3332000@yahoo.com<br>240-764-5748<br>Clear writing moves business forward.</div><div><br></div> <div style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: tahoma, 'new york', times, serif; "> <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Stefan Wöhrmann <stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, September 8, 2013 5:41 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> AW: help with writing an ASL sentence for an academic paper<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv8658316644">
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<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">Hi Valerie, Nancy, Adam, Maria, Guido and friends of
the sw-list ;-)) , </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; "> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">I love to discuss this kind of documents. SignWriting
is such a wonderdull tool to discuss different aspects of any given SL
performance on a solid foundation. </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; "> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">This is a typical example. Somebody tries to
translate a given concept (idea, phrase, sentence) to ASL ( or
DGS...whatsoever..) </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; "> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">Now different competent signers may offer their w r
i t t e n answer to this problem. </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; "> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">What can be seen again and again ... there is not the
one and only possible translation. </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; "> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;">Even if</span></font></span><span class="yiv8658316644shorttext"><span lang="EN"> </span></span><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><span lang="EN">the
sequence</span></span><span class="yiv8658316644shorttext"><span lang="EN"> </span></span><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><span lang="EN">of signs</span></span><span class="yiv8658316644shorttext"><span lang="EN"> </span></span><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><span lang="EN">may</span></span><span class="yiv8658316644shorttext"><span lang="EN"> </span></span><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><span lang="EN">be
the same</span> there are still lots of possibilities to make individual
(perhaps meaningfull) differences ... In this case the facial expressions... </span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;">The good point is that we can discuss our “examples”
in detail. We can learn from each other. We can look at the documents as long
as we want to (compared to video ... ;-) </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;">We can easily rewrite or change the document
if we wish to. </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;">Looking at your document Nancy – I have
a question. (Same question goes to Adam ;-)) )</span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;"> I tried to rewrite your sentence with the US-
SignPuddle Dictionary. I do not get the same signs this way. Does this mean
that you write this kind of document from scratch with SignText? </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;">Nancy, I would like to discuss your spelling
of “Language” - the way you wrote it both hands move back and
forth at the same time. Is this the way you want to sign it? </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;">Another spelling question: “written”
second sign in the right column. Left palm facing you, right hand is moving
diagonally forward instead down or to the right ... mh ... compared to your
spelling of SignWriting (left hand palm up, right hand writing zigzag on the
palm) the first spelling seems to be somehow inconsistent. (Although there is
no doubt about that everybody should be able to understand the idea –
smile) </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;">Now a discussion apart from SignWriting and
spelling... </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;">Both of you (Nancy and Adam) write a sign for
“with” –mh – (Maybe just because Maria asked for a
sentence including this “with”)</span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;">Do not know ASL but here is my question –
from my point of idea “with” is kind of “with a pen”
or “with my friend” or...”with the delegs Editor” but
“written with (????) SignWriting? </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;">I am looking forward to your answers. </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;">All best </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;">Stefan </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><span class="yiv8658316644hps"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN" style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial; "> </span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial; "> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" tabindex="-1">
</span></font></div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold; font-family: Tahoma; ">Von:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; ">
SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU] <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Im
Auftrag von </span></b>Romero<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Gesendet</span></b></span></font><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold; font-family: Tahoma; ">:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; "> Sonntag, 8. September 2013 01:56<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">An:</span></b>
SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Betreff:</span></b> Re: help with writing an
ASL sentence for an academic paper</span></font></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"><img width="242" height="431" id="yiv8658316644_x0039_3320fb6-9613-4208-9443-c41931f80c32" src="cid:1.372437196@web163406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"></span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Here's an example of an example:</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Facial expression eyebrows up, index finger points down 2x (This)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Fingerspelling for ASL</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">2 horizontal lines for a pause</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Sign for AMERICA (fingers intertwined, making a small horizontal
circle)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Sign for SIGN (2 index fingers travel in vertical oblong circle,
alternating)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Sign for LANGUAGE ( "L" handshapes facing floor moving
outward while rotating)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">2 horizontal lines for a pause</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Sign for SHOW (flat left hand, right index touching palm of L hand,
both move forward together twice)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Sign for WRITING (flat L palm, R hand as if holding pen moves diagonal
on floor plane, 2x)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Sign for WITH (2 "A" handshapes together, baby fingers toward
the floor</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Sign for SIGN (shown previously)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Sign for WRITING (former sign for WRITE with zigzag writing movement.
This is only one variation)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">2 horizontal lines for a pause</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Fingerspelled S and W (another way to sign SIGN WRITING)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Thick horizontal line for the end of the sentence.</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">On Sep 7, 2013, at 4:41 PM, maria galea <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:signwriting.maria@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:signwriting.maria@gmail.com">signwriting.maria@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"><br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">Dear list members particularly ASL users,</span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;">A friend of mine who happens to be a linguist in the field of writing
systems of the world is hoping to include the mentioning of SignWriting as a
writing system of the world, and he has asked if someone could translate the
following sentence into ASL SignWriting:</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">"This is an American sign language example written with
SignWriting "</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">If you could add sign-to-meaning correspondences, syntactic
factors, and lexical selection considerations would be helpful for him.</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">Thank you! It would be great if SignWriting makes its way into
the academic field of writing systems, so thank you very much for helping out
with this (i can't do it myself, because I'm not an ASL user)</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; ">best regards to everyone!</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; ">maria</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv8658316644MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="
font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
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