<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"><base href="x-msg://38/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">SignWriting List<div>September 10, 2013</div><div><br></div><div>Hello Ernandes Barroso Lourenço from Brazil!</div><div><br></div><div>Welcome to the SignWriting List. I believe you are a new member?</div><div><br></div><div>I just noticed our List has over 250 members - I thought we had 200 - the List has expanded quickly in the past few months...</div><div><br></div><div>Your logo is so amazing - I just want you to know how much I enjoyed looking at it - it is so creative and different!!</div><div><br></div><div>Do you use SignWriting in your Basic Libras Course in Brazil?</div><div><br></div><div>Tell us a little about your work in Brazil…</div><div><br></div><div>Val ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>----------</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="hmmessage" style="font-size: medium; font-family: Calibri; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div dir="ltr"><div>Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 17:22:45 +0000<br>From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ernandesbarroso@CORREIOS.COM.BR">ernandesbarroso@CORREIOS.COM.BR</a><br>Subject: RES: SignWriting E-Lessons in PDF and Word formats<br>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br><br><div class="ecxSection1"><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><img id="ecx_x0000_i1025" width="515" height="98" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CEAE28.D55586C0"></span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="3" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font color="maroon" size="3" face="Arial"><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; ">Manaus/AM, 10 de setembro de 2013.</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font color="maroon" size="3" face="Arial"><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font color="maroon" size="3" face="Arial"><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; ">Great idea, Andre!</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font color="maroon" size="3" face="Arial"><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font color="maroon" size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; ">I’d like very much to get this pdf lessons.</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font color="maroon" size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font color="maroon" size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; "><font color="maroon" size="3" face="Arial"><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; ">Atenciosamente,</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; "><font color="maroon" size="3" face="Arial"><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; "><font color="maroon" size="3" face="Arial"><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; "><font color="maroon" size="3" face="Arial"><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; ">Ernandes Barroso Lourenço – 80531083</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; "><font color="maroon" size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; ">Supervisor - PRT/AM-670/2006</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; "><b><font color="maroon" size="3" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: bold; ">SECO/GEREC/DR/AM</span></font></b><font color="maroon" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-US" style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; "></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; "><font color="maroon" size="3" face="Arial"><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; "><a href="mailto:ernandesbarroso@correios.com.br">ernandesbarroso@correios.com.br</a></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; "><font color="maroon" size="3" face="Arial"><span style="color: maroon; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; ">Fone/Fax: (92)3621-8422; Celular: 9221-8825 ou 8250-1042</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="3" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="3" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font>-----Mensagem original-----<br>De: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:SW-<a href="mailto:L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>] Em nome de Valerie Sutton<br>Enviada em: terça-feira, 10 de setembro de 2013 12:44<br>Para:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>Assunto: SignWriting E-Lessons in PDF and Word formats<font face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; "></span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">SignWriting List</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">September 9, 2013</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">Hello André!</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">Thank you for this offer to create a PDF of our SignWriting E-Lessons…</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">That would be a wonderful gift - maybe a lot of work for you? But I appreciate it, if you can do it, and of course I will post it then, on the E-Lessons web page as well as your posting it to the SignWriting List…this will be great for everyone…</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">The Word and PDF formats are both very valuable.</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">I will provide you the cover page and credits when you send me the document - yes - that is perfect!</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">Have a great day!</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">Val ;-)</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">--------</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">On Sep 9, 2013, at 2:40 PM, André L <<a href="mailto:andre-andre@hotmail.ca">andre-andre@hotmail.ca</a>> wrote:</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Hello Valerie,</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> thank you for this useful link to the e-lessons.</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> I will gather all e-lessons in a single word document for my own usage.</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Do you want a copy? You could post-it for download in word or PDF format.</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> If so, I will need a suggestion for the coverpage and a few lines of introduction by you (which you can provide later when I send you a draft of the document).</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Thank you.</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> André Lemyre</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">________________________________</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 20:33:18 -0700</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:signwriting@MAC.COM">signwriting@MAC.COM</a></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Subject: Re: AW: help with writing an ASL sentence for an academic paper</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a></span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> SignWriting List</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> September 8, 2013</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Hello Andre -</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Thank you for your messages. Yes, there are two SignSpelling Rules that are important to read and understand. They are located on these web pages:</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> SignSpelling Rule 1: Write the Position of Contact</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less063.html">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less063.html</a></span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> SignSpelling Rule 2: Every Sign Has A Center</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less064.html">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less064.html</a></span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> and also read:</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> SignSpelling Process?</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less065.html">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less065.html</a></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> and continue all the way through this web page:</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less074.html">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less074.html</a></span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> We try to write the way the signs look in real life as much as possible…so when two hands contact, we write the two hand symbols as best as we can, as close to each other as we can. So the Contact Symbols cannot come between the two hand symbols, because in real life that would not happen. Of course there are times that it is hard to write one hand over the other or whatever, so we are not 100 per cent like real life, but at least we try to place them close to each other and still readable. Then you place the Contact Symbols near those two hand symbols, if you feel you need the Contact Symbols.</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Since most of the time, we are able to write the two hand symbols close to each other when we contact…we call that the "Position of Contact" - since most of the time we can write the Position of Contact visually, the way it really looks, there are times when a single Touch Contact Star is not needed because you can see the contact through the visual placement of the two symbols…</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> I suggest that you read the above web pages carefully and look at all the diagrams - it will help a lot.</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Regarding the placement of the arrows….The Position of Contact is the "center" of the sign and the arrows either push or pull to or away from that center, as explained in the SignSpelling Rules above…</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> I think your last question is related to "classifiers"? or perhaps I do not understand your last question? Give us an example of what you are asking…that might help...</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Val ;-)</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> --------</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> On Sep 8, 2013, at 8:17 PM, André L <<a href="mailto:andre-andre@HOTMAIL.CA">andre-andre@HOTMAIL.CA</a>> wrote:</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Hi,</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> is there any guideline on where movement and contact graphems should be placed relatively to handshapes?</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> I tend to put contact graphems between the hands when they cannot be overlaped clearly. I tend to put arrows in the periphery of the signs.</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Is there a convention for expressions composed of 2 words that take a different specific meaning (example: a car component with some shape)? This makes a dictionary containing expressions, lexics...</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> André Lemyre</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">________________________________</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 09:02:28 -0700</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:signwriting@MAC.COM">signwriting@MAC.COM</a></span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Subject: Re: AW: help with writing an ASL sentence for an academic paper</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a></span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> SignWriting List</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> September 8, 2013</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Hello Stefan and everyone -</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Thank you for this message, Stefan. And we all agree it is wonderful to discuss the differences in translations. There will always be differences…</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Years ago, when I started writing signs at the University of Copenhagen in 1974, I wrote by watching videos because there was no other way I could watch the signs and gestures that they asked me to write. So SignWriting started by watching videos and transcribing those videos into SignWriting documents.</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> But that is no longer our focus here, in our organization (the Center for Sutton Movement Writing and the Deaf Action Committee for SignWriting - the DAC). Our organization does not represent the entire US however…we are just one group writing ASL in the US… there are several groups of ASL writers now in the US - it is important for everyone to understand that my organization does not represent the US… we are just one of several groups writing ASL...</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Let me try to answer you between your sentences below…see below...</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> On Sep 8, 2013, at 2:41 AM, Stefan Wöhrmann <<a href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM">stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM</a>> wrote:</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Hi Valerie, Nancy, Adam, Maria, Guido and friends of the sw-list ;-)) ,</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> I love to discuss this kind of documents. SignWriting is such a wonderdull tool to discuss different aspects of any given SL performance on a solid foundation.as</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> The word "performance" in English seems like you are talking about actual signing, but sometimes, when we write directly in ASL, not based on viewing any video or any person, but thinking in ASL in our heads, and then writing directly, we are not seeing anyone sign it, but we are writing our thinking - so the old way of writing from video is a different experience than writing what you are thinking in ASL…I cannot do this because I am not skilled in ASL, but I know that other writers here think in ASL and write directly in ASL...</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> This is a typical example. Somebody tries to translate a given concept (idea, phrase, sentence) to ASL ( or DGS...whatsoever..)</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Now different competent signers may offer their w r i t t e n answer to this problem.</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> What can be seen again and again ... there is not the one and only possible translation.</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Yes…exactly…and a lot depends on the method of translating…is one writing what someone else says? or is one writing what you yourself think? ;-))</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Even if the sequence of signs may be the same there are still lots of possibilities to make individual (perhaps meaningfull) differences ... In this case the facial expressions…</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Yes, I can imagine there could always be more facial expressions added if you want to write Deaf storytelling, like in Cherie Wren's Cat in the Hat (<a href="http://www.signwriting.org/library/children/CatHat.html">http://www.signwriting.org/library/children/CatHat.html</a>) - that has a lot of facial expressions - but that was because Cherie was telling a story - it was not the cold translation of one sentence - and then the ASL culture doesn't necessarily want to write mouthing, as we have discussed before -</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> This does not mean that we are not totally amazed and impressed with the writing of German Sign Language and also the writing of the mouthing and SpeechWriting that you have developed, Stefan. You are a genius to develop this teaching tool and we are grateful for your work. We are just not teachers of Deaf children, in the same way that you are on a daily basis - we are writing the ASL language without attempting to teach anything - other than to provide the world with written ASL literature for those who already know ASL and want to read directly in their own language...</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Meanwhile, as Nancy explained, the topic marker of the eyebrows up, is an ASL grammar marker and necessary to be written and that was written -</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> The good point is that we can discuss our “examples” in detail. We can learn from each other. We can look at the documents as long as we want to (compared to video ... ;-)</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> We can easily rewrite or change the document if we wish to.</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Yes. That has already happened thanks to your discussion! But we have no video and I do not think it should be written from video. That would be like asking a United Nations translator to transcribe the sounds of Russian from an audio tape, rather than writing the standardized spellings of written Russian when listening to the audio tape -</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> There are really two ways to transcribe video in SignWriting - one based on writing movement…writing what you see as an observer - but now we have a second way of transcribing video - things are changing here - that second way is based on the idea that we have enough standardized spellings that we do not have to write what we see on the video, but instead use the video as a reminder as to what is being said, and then use standardized spellings to write what was said in ASL on the video, and not worry about writing body movement and personal styles of signing -</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> This new way of doing video transcription is happening right now in Michigan, by a separate group…Ron Dettloff's Deaf Church in Michigan has two ASL writers who are looking at ASL videos that are a translation of Bible passages, and then writing those videos in SignWriting - but they are not writing every movement and facial expression - instead they are writing a simpler version for each sign that cuts down on the detail -</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> This is not a perfect solution - and I am not saying there is not room for lots of feedback and training because there is - but I think it is exciting to see how video transcription has its differences as well as translators' differences - they are two totally different mediums but very interesting -</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Looking at your document Nancy – I have a question. (Same question goes to Adam ;-)) )</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> I tried to rewrite your sentence with the US- SignPuddle Dictionary. I do not get the same signs this way. Does this mean that you write this kind of document from scratch with SignText?</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> OK. I believe you may not realize that we have two ASL Dictionaries? The unedited ASL Dictionary is a mess and is completely without editing…anyone can write signs there and there are lots of doubles and no funding to help us create a clean dictionary… (I hope this will become a project for the future) and the second ASL Dictionary was developed by Nancy Romero for her Bible translations…Only Nancy and a handful of others can add signs to the ASL Bible Dictionary and Nancy has edited the dictionary so it is the best we have (thank you, Nancy - we are grateful for your dictionary!).</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Anyone can view, copy and use the translate feature in either ASL Dictionary… see attached diagram…I assume that Nancy used the ASL Bible Dictionary when translating …you can try it too, Stefan -</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> See attached…</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Meanwhile there are people like me who write directly in SignText without using the Translate feature at all -</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Have a blessed day, everyone - and Maria - I surely hope you send all these discussions and translations to the scholar documenting SignWriting as a written form for languages - it is a true writing system used on a daily basis by brilliant people -</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Val ;-)</span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Valerie Sutton</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> SignWriting List moderator</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a></span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:</span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; "> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a></span></font></div><p class="ecxMsoPlainText" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; 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