<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:Calibri
}
--></style></head>
<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Erika, <BR>you are welcome.<BR>I saw on your University web site that you wrote on sign languages.<BR>Is there some of your publications available from the web?<BR> <BR>Your exercise was interesting.<BR>It was the first time I used sign puddle for a text instead of a dictionary.<BR>I was so easy!<BR> <BR>André Lemyre<br> <BR><div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 12:43:06 -0400<br>From: erhoffma@OBERLIN.EDU<br>Subject: Re: Projet de livre en SignWriting<br>To: SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU<br><br><div dir="ltr">Thank you <font face="Arial">André</font>! I agree with Charles that the frog sign is lovely. Your description of your purposes for using SW generally is so useful and so well illustrated in the choices you made in creating your sentences (seeking to highlight aspects of the signing that can be difficult for French speaking students to grasp).<br>
<br></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 6:51 AM, Charles Butler <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" target="_blank">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;"><div><div style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div><span>I love the sign for frog with the cheeks puffing in and out. </span></div>
<div></div><div> </div><div>Charles Butler<br><a href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" target="_blank">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a><br><a target="_blank">240-764-5748</a><br>Clear writing moves business forward.</div>
<div><br></div> <div style='font-family: tahoma,"new york",times,serif; font-size: 12pt;'> <div style='font-family: "times new roman","new york",times,serif; font-size: 12pt;'> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1">
<font face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> André L <<a href="mailto:andre-andre@HOTMAIL.CA" target="_blank">andre-andre@HOTMAIL.CA</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, September 14, 2013 11:00 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Projet de livre en SignWriting<br>
</font> </div><div><div class="h5"> <div><br><div>
<div><div dir="ltr"><blockquote dir="ltr"><blockquote dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Bonjour Erik - Hello Erika</div><div dir="ltr">
Voici mon exemple de texte en Langue des signes du Québec (pidgin imparfait écrit par un entendant) pour ton projet.</div><div dir="ltr">Here is my text example in Québec sign language (flawed pidgin written by an hearing person) for your project.</div>
</blockquote></blockquote><div dir="ltr"> </div><blockquote dir="ltr"><blockquote dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Voir mon texte au-bas de ton courriel. See my text below your e-mail.</div>
</blockquote></blockquote><div dir="ltr"> </div><blockquote dir="ltr"><blockquote dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">André Lemyre</div>
</blockquote></blockquote><div dir="ltr"><br>-------------------</div><div dir="ltr">-------------------<br><br>Bonjour à toutes et à tous,<br><font face="Times New Roman">
</font> <br>Comme vous vous en rappelez peut-être, il y a quelque temps,
nous avons échangé à propos de la possibilité que les membres de cette liste de
discussion soient intéressés par la création d'un court document en "sign
writting".<span> </span>Je vais les inclure dans
un livre sur lequel je travaille.</div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div dir="ltr">Ce que j'ai proposé initialement était:</div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div dir="ltr">"Que pensez-vous que nous choisissions un texte que
tous ceux d'entre vous qui le désirent pourraient traduire dans leur langue des
signes respective en utilisant le "sign writting"?<span> </span>Je pourrais consacrer un chapitre du livre
sur ces textes.<span> </span>Cela permettrait une
comparaison des différentes langues des signes et les façons d'utiliser le
"sign writting".<span> </span></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div dir="ltr">Chaque auteur pourrait partager ses réflexions sur ses choix
lors de la création du texte, incluant peut-être comment son expérience et ses
buts ont affecté ces choix (puisque certains d'entre vous sont poètes, d'autres
sont linguistes, etc.).<span> </span>Les participants
pourraient aussi partager leurs réflexions sur ce que nous pouvons apprendre de
ces textes."</div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div dir="ltr">Nous avons discuté longuement sur la meilleure façon
d'initier ces textes.<span> </span>Il semblait que la
chose la plus agréable serait d'utiliser une simple image comme point de
départ,<span> </span>quelque chose qui mènerait à des
phrases intéressantes mais qui ne prendrait pas trop de votre temps à
créer.<span> </span>J'ai proposé d'utiliser les deux
images ci-jointes, en écrivant peut-être une ou deux phrases sur chacune, pour
un total de 2 à 4 phrases.</div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div dir="ltr">Eh bien, je viens de recevoir une réponse d'un éditeur
potentiel qui me demande quand je pourrai lui donner un brouillon.<span> </span></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div dir="ltr">Donc, j'ai pensé qu'il vaut mieux relancer la discussion!</div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div dir="ltr">Voici ce que je pense être l'idéal:</div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div dir="ltr">Ceux d'entre vous qui le veulent créeraient de brefs textes
à partir des images et les publieraient dans la liste.<span> </span>Je suis intéressée non seulement par les
textes, mais aussi par la richesse des conversations sur les différentes
langues et les styles d'écriture qui en suivront.<span> </span>Comme je l'ai écrit à l'éditeur:</div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div dir="ltr">"Je vais inviter les auteurs à présenter des textes en
langue des signes écrits pour le livre et à participer à l'analyse de ces
textes".</div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font><br><span> </span>Notez que, puisque c'est un projet de linguistique anthropologique,
il n'est pas nécessaire que les textes soient les mêmes - par exemple, c'est
bien si différentes personnes écrivent des phrases décrivant différents
éléments des illustrations.</div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div dir="ltr">Donc, qu'en pensez-vous?<span>
</span>Devrions-nous essayer?</div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div dir="ltr"><div style="display: inline-block;"><span> </span><div style="display: inline-block;"><img width="770" height="802" src="cid:1.449351959@web163402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"></div><span> </span></div></div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div><div dir="ltr"><div style="display: inline-block;"><span> </span><div style="display: inline-block;"><img width="770" height="802" src="cid:2.449351960@web163402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"></div><span> </span></div>
</div><font face="Times New Roman"></font><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br>Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway<br>Assistante Professeur d'Anthropologie<br>Oberlin College
</div><div dir="ltr"> </div><div dir="ltr"> </div><div dir="ltr">--------------</div><div dir="ltr">--------------</div><div dir="ltr">--------------</div><div dir="ltr"> </div><blockquote dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Erika, here is my text...</div></blockquote><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>For me, the existence of sign writing is based on one need, how we can note a
sign in order to remember it and share it.</span></div></blockquote><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>As a hearing student in sign language, I have 3h00 classes per week and
at least 1 hour of individual study per day.<span>
</span>The course is based on videos installed on my PC or on-line and a few
books with pictures.<span> </span>A dictionary is in
development for LSQ but it will be completed in 2018.<span> </span></span></div></blockquote><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'><span></span></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>When I need a word, I have to search several places and often I do not
find the sign I need.<span> </span>When I do not know
a sign I use a synonym, but I feel that it is a cheap and poor way to
communicate.<span> </span>Often, I see deaf people
use signs I never see.<span> </span>This causes me a
high feeling of incompetence and powerless since I believe that the sign is
documented nowhere available to me.</span></div></blockquote><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>Sometimes, teachers present signs that differ from the videos or the
books.<span> </span>Having no way to note what I see
and knowing I would not remember them, I simply gave up trying.<span> </span>As I developed my vocabulary, I started
taking notes such as "this sign looks like this other one with a small
difference".<span> </span></span></div></blockquote><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'><span></span></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>Then I found sign writing.<span> </span>It is
long to learn.<span> </span>It took me between 3
and 6 months to be able to write a sign in 5 minutes (with mistakes!).<span> </span>During that period, I spent little time
reviewing my vocabulary.<span> </span>I have to watch
videos several times and I rely on hints provided by sign writing studio.<span> </span>I still have difficulties with direction
arrows of the arm and the wrist.<span> </span>At
first I wrote approximations of signs that were good enough to be recopied
after class.<span> </span>In class, the teacher signs
fast, it is hard to find the time to take notes or write signs.<span> </span>Still, if I take no note, I fear I will not
learn through repetition.<span> </span>I still take
notes such as "this sign looks like this other one with a small
difference" and often I add the best sign writing I can. </span></div></blockquote><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>Then I copy these notes for other students (only five) as an effort to
improve.<span> </span>They do not know sign writing,
a part of this effort is wasted at present.</span></div></blockquote><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>I found a sign writing convention at the university.<span> </span>The take 1, 2 or 3 pictures, they add
direction arrows and detail the hand configurations, orientations and
movements.<span> </span>This takes a whole page for
one sign.<span> </span>Most of the information is
within the pictures.</span></div></blockquote><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'></span> </div><div dir="ltr">
<font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>It seems simpler for me to write a sign than take a picture of myself
and edit it.<span> </span>Still, this would require
writing the sign that I see before taking the pictures.<span> </span>I cannot avoid the note taking part.</span></div></blockquote><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'> </span></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>My Québec sign language (with pidgin) text is a follow:</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>child him room his.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>dog frog his.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>him happy.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>in front bed, in bottle, frog</span></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>it wait what? night.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>why? </span></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>when all sleep, it flee with boot magic seven place.</span></div>
<div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'></span> </div><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr">
<span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'>This text uses rhetorical questions, positioning of characters in space, and swapped order of words compared to French... all of which are a difficulty for hearing people.</span></div>
<div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'></span> </div><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr">
</div></blockquote><span lang="EN-CA" style='font-family: "Times New Roman",serif; font-size: 12pt;'><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr"> </div><div style="line-height: normal;" dir="ltr">
</div><div dir="ltr"><div style="display: inline-block;"><span> </span><div style="display: inline-block;"><img width="710" height="430" src="cid:3.449351960@web163402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"></div><span> </span></div></div><div dir="ltr">
</div><div dir="ltr"></div></span><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman">
</font></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman"><div style="display: inline-block;"><span> </span><div style="display: inline-block;"><img width="354" height="422" src="cid:4.449351960@web163402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"></div>
<span> </span></div>
</font></div></div> </div></div>
</div><br><br></div> </div></div></div> </div> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Erika Hoffmann-Dilloway<br>Assistant Professor of Anthropology<br>Oberlin College
</div></div> </div></body>
</html>