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    Hi Stefan,<br>
        Thanks for sharing your point of view.  I didn't mean to open a
    can of worms.  I know you and others have mentioned this previously
    I still don't quite fully understand the issue.  <br>
    <br>
    For the symbols in the second row, could you draw me how you feel
    the symbols should look like for this handshape?<br>
    <br>
    This doesn't have to do with my previous question for searching but
    just the same I am still interested in understanding this issue.  I
    do see how the thumb on the other side of the hand looks like
    contortionism (so in a way I agree with you)  but I don't understand
    how you would draw it otherwise while maintaining a distinction
    between this handshape and one with the thumb pointing down.<br>
    <br>
    I enjoy reading your comments here on the list.<br>
    <br>
    Regards,<br>
    Jonathan<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/20/2013 1:57 PM, Stefan Wöhrmann
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
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      <div class="Section1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB">Hi Valerie, Jonathan and
              friends, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB">Perhaps it is good to
              know that every five years or so we open this can of worms
              again and again ... </span></font><span class="hps"><span
              lang="EN">There are some</span></span><span lang="EN"> <span
              class="hps">symbols for</span> <span class="hps">hand
              shapes</span> <span class="hps">that are</span> <span
              class="hps">not accepted by all</span> <span class="hps">experienced</span>
            <span class="hps">writers</span> <span class="hps">in
              this way.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB">I do not understand and
              my brain refuses to accept  the writing in the second line
              ... the right thumb 
              looking as if sticking out to the left is extremely
              confusing to me. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB">I would never use this
              symbol to indicate the right hand... <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB">Just to add a comment ...
              everybody is free to write as he wants to smile – (I know)
              but
              nevertheless – <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB">In this case it looks as
              if there is a “rule”   since this graphic and photo shows
              up in a “manual” 
              and as if people who would not follow would not know how
              to do it correctly ...
              smile <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB">Perhaps there is a way to
              identify and mark these symbols that are still a problemn
              to some of us. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB">All best Stefan <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"
              lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
        <div>
          <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
            align="center"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New
              Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext">
                <hr tabindex="-1" size="2" width="100%" align="center">
              </span></font></div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" color="black"
                face="Tahoma"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold">Von:</span></font></b><font
              size="2" color="black" face="Tahoma"><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
                color:windowtext"> SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign
                Languages
                [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>] <b><span
                    style="font-weight:bold">Im
                    Auftrag von </span></b>Jonathan Duncan<br>
                <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Gesendet:</span></b>
                Freitag, 20. September
                2013 19:12<br>
                <b><span style="font-weight:bold">An:</span></b>
                <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>
                <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Betreff:</span></b>
                Finger Direction Is
                Meaningful</span></font><font color="black"><span
                style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times
            New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times
            New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Hi Val and Adam,<br>
                  I have a question about the "Finger Direction Is
              Meaningful" pages in the "SignWriting Hand Symbols" manual
              and
              the "American Sign Language Hand Symbols" manual.<br>
              <br>
                  I understand the these handshapes and positions can we
              written either like the left column or the right column. 
              Is this only
              true in the case of the top view of the back of the hand
              pointing
              forward?  I see that ALL the examples are the top view of
              the back of the
              hand pointing forward.  Also, would this be true of all
              handshapes or just
              the one you have listed on the "Finger Direction Is
              Meaningful"
              pages?<br>
              <br>
              Thanks<br>
              <img id="_x0000_i1025"
                src="cid:part1.05080002.03020609@yahoo.ca" width="600"
                height="776"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times
              New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
          <div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black"
                  face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><img
                      id="_x0000_i1026"
                      src="cid:part2.00080802.06020109@yahoo.ca"
                      width="200" height="44"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
              <p><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt">email:
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca">duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca</a><br>
                             <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:joyoduncan@gmail.com">joyoduncan@gmail.com</a><br>
                    Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171<br>
                    Tel USA: (347)875-8442 <br>
                    Skype: yojoduncan<br>
                    <br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="http://www.signwriterstudio.com/">SignWriter
                      Studio</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
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        <div> <img src="cid:part6.02060307.04020404@yahoo.ca" alt="">
          <p>email: <a href="mailto:duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca">duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca</a><br>
                     <a href="mailto:joyoduncan@gmail.com">joyoduncan@gmail.com</a><br>
            Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171<br>
            Tel USA: (347)875-8442 <br>
            Skype: yojoduncan<br>
            <br>
            <a href="http://www.signwriterstudio.com/">SignWriter Studio</a></p>
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