<div dir="ltr">Nice work Stefan :)<div><br></div><div>Honza</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 6 November 2013 18:38, Stefan Woehrmann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@gebaerdenschrift.de" target="_blank">stefanwoehrmann@gebaerdenschrift.de</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="DE" link="blue" vlink="blue" style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Hi Honza, Valerie and
everybody...<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">when I did this kind of
research a decade ago I found some very interesting documents that may lead to
the assumption that SignWriting is a notation system that existed already long time
ago... smile<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">L.I.F.E<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">All best <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Stefan <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">Von:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> SignWriting
List: Read and Write Sign Languages [mailto:<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Im Auftrag von </span></b>Valerie Sutton<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Gesendet:</span></b> Mittwoch, 6. November 2013
17:54<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">An:</span></b>
<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Betreff:</span></b> Re: Genesis of
SignWriting</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">SignWriting List<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">November 6, 2013<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Hello Honza and everyone -<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Thank you for starting this interesting thread, about the “genesis” or
the background and history not only to SignWriting, but to writing sign
languages throughout history. There is a lot to discuss.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Regarding Roch-Ambroise Auguste Bébian…<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I first heard about Bébian’s system in September 2007, when my
friend Shane Gilchrist (hi Shane!) suggested that I purchase a book called “I
See a Voice” by Jonathan Rée. I ordered it from <a href="http://Amazon.com" target="_blank">Amazon.com</a>
and then enjoyed skimming the chapters related to writing sign languages, from
page 293-324. It was there that I first learned about Bébian, but I was
immediately attracted to his system and his feelings about writing sign
languages and felt a “connection” (you know what I mean - almost a spiritual
feeling that we were on the same plane, so to speak). And there are many other
interesting stories and information in the book which makes me think I should
read the book more carefully - I confess I have only skimmed the book.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">But yes, Honza, I see the connection, but no, I did not know about
Bébian at the time of my first writing Danish Sign Language and a South Pacific
Sign Language back in Denmark in 1974, 1975 and 1976.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I was a little different than the other developers of writing systems,
in that I did not come from a knowledge of any sign language, nor did I have a
desire to learn linguistics. I loved languages in general, but that is not a
linguistic interest. I was already writing the dances of the Bournonville
tradition at the Royal Theater in Copenhagen with my invention in 1974, and
when I started writing the movement of both hearing people and Danish Sign
Language from a video at the University of Copenhagen starting in 1974, I was
sharing my time between writing dance at the Royal theater and writing sign
language movement and hearing-person’s gestures at the University - I saw
myself as a movement notator and not a sign language writer at the time…but
overtime, as I wrote more of Danish Sign Language on the video, I became aware
it was a real language…I self-published two booklets on writing sign languages
- one on writing Danish Sign Language, and the other on writing signs from a
South Pacific Island with Rolf Kuschel. These two booklets are mentioned on
this web page, and I could scan them and post them on the web if you wish…would
you like to see these old historic documents?<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/library/history/hist003.html" target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/library/history/hist003.html</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><img border="0" width="496" height="677" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CEDB1F.593381E0"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">My influence was definitely Friedrich Albert Zorn ( <a href="http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Albert_Zorn" target="_blank">http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Albert_Zorn</a>
), and Walt Disney’s animation that places movement in drawings frame by frame
by frame from left to right on a five-lined staff that can fit under music…
That was my starting point…<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Then I started writing sign language in stick figures at the University
go Copenhagen… Later I learned about Dr.Stokoe and his research…<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I think starting visual with stick figures, with no linguistic
judgements, had great value, and I still believe in the visual, but it is the
writers we work with, like yourself, Honza, and in my case, the Deaf Action
Committee, that had the greatest influence on our writing expressively, in
vertical columns, without full stick figures…the way we write today…and the
internet had a big influence…where I and others meet people like yourself - as
we write we influence each other...<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I bet there were many other writing systems for sign languages before
and after Bébian, that we have not heard of, because everyone needs a way to
write signs… Adam tells me that most signers have developed their own way of
writing their language from time to time…Adam developed his own system too,
before starting to work with SignWriting, and I have also met other Deaf
signers who have done the same - Bernard Bragg is one -<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">If Bébian had done his work during the age of the internet, we might be
writing his system worldwide now - smile -<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Val ;-)<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">-----<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Nov 6, 2013, at 7:18 AM, Honza <<a href="mailto:honza@RUCE.CZ" target="_blank">honza@RUCE.CZ</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Hello Valerie,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">recently I researched history if writing sign languages and I realized
that the very first writing system developed by Roch-Ambroise Auguste Bébian
(French) is in some way similar to SignWriting.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Did you know about Bebian's writing system by the time you developed
SignWriting on the basis of DanceWriting and were you inspired by his system or
not?<br>
It is known that Stokoe created his notation system on the basis of
Bebian's.. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">It is very interesting fact.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">It interests me because I teach about writing sign languages at
University, but I haven't found enought detail about this.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Thank you.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Honza<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
________________________________________________
<p>
</p><p>
SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
</p><p></p><div><div class="h5">
Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
<a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" target="_blank">sutton@signwriting.org</a>
</div></div><p></p><div><div class="h5">
Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
<a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu" target="_blank">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a>
</div></div><p></p><div><div class="h5">
SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
<a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist" target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a>
</div></div><p>
Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
<a href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1" target="_blank">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a>
________________________________________________
</p><div class="im"><p>
</p><p>
SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
</p><p>
Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
<a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" target="_blank">sutton@signwriting.org</a>
</p><p>
Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
<a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu" target="_blank">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a>
</p><p>
SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
<a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist" target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a>
</p><p>
Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
<a href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1" target="_blank">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p></div><p></p><p></p>
<p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p></blockquote></div><br></div>
________________________________________________
<p>
<p>
SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
<p>
Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
sutton@signwriting.org
<p>
Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu
<p>
SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
<p>
Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1