<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">SignWriting List<div>December 14, 2013</div><div><br></div><div>Hi Ingvild!</div><div>Wonderful to hear from you again. These are good categories - Thank you for your input -</div><div><br></div><div>Maybe sometime this holiday season we can Skype? I would love to talk to you again - You are missed here!</div><div><br></div><div>Val ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>-------------</div><div><br><div><div>On Dec 14, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Ingvild Roald <<a href="mailto:iroald@HOTMAIL.COM">iroald@HOTMAIL.COM</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div dir="auto"><div>I at least would like to have 2 categories for source: Who did the writing and where is the sign used</div><div>And I would like to have a whol range of possibilities for categories or concepts or groups to help interpreters prepare for assignments etc. Thiessen I have ben eorking no for years and years . . .<br></div><div>AS for morphemes, Norwegians S L as well as other sls also have mouth-morphemes. They may be borrowed from the local spoken language, be "Deaf"-mouthings that have to be used whith that sign for the sign to be correctly sigende, or they may be modifiers like adverbs, adjectives or the like. Also, the speed or the force that is used may be the morphemes that makes noe sign differe in meaning from another, as in minimal pairs</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br>Den 13. des. 2013 kl. 01:55 skrev "maria galea" <<a href="mailto:signwriting.maria@GMAIL.COM">signwriting.maria@GMAIL.COM</a>>:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi again!</div><div>About parts of speech, I agree with Rachel that parts of speech for sign languages are usually not so straightforward (like English). A sign may sometimes become a verb or noun depending on its context. For instance in LSM, the sign DOOR can be either nominal or verbal depending on its place within a sentence: MAN-DOOR would mean 'the man opens the door' (where it is verbal) whereas in DOOR-BREAK the same sign is nominal meaning 'the door broke'...but it is good to have the option to list them I guess and leave them empty at will..</div>
<div><br></div><div>yes Valerie I definitely see the value of SignPuddle as an editing program for all, even beginners - I just thought it would be good if Puddle could remain accessible to all, yet become less anonymous - for instance on the internet there are millions of blogs and billions of blog-posts but they are rarely anonymous - and in being more transparent has its advantages :) </div>
<div><br></div>Re the statuses:<div><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: inherit;">* provisional</span><br style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: inherit;">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: inherit;">* approved</span><br style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: inherit;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: inherit;">* nonstandard</span><br style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: inherit;">
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: inherit;">* rejected</span><br></div><div><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: inherit;"><br></span></div>
<div>I think I understand Stefan's concern, because <font face="Times New Roman" size="3">how can spellings be judged when the orthography of a given sign language is not yet standardized. </font><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: inherit;">All spellings are acceptable in the sense that they are all attempts towards the representation of a sign in written form (irrespective of skill in SW). </span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Rather than these statuses, could you mark the spellings with the statuses of r</font><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">epresentation 01, </font><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: inherit;">representation 0</span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">2, </font><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: inherit;">representation 0</span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">3 etc of a given sign, and</font><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> somehow link these different spellings of the same sign (lexeme) under one target sign. This would make the count of the sign entries truly sign/lexeme counts rather than a count of every spelling?</font><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> ... once again not sure this is possible, but just thought I'd share my thoughts about it just the same,</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><br></font></div><div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">regards,</font></div><div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">maria</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><br></font></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 12 December 2013 21:52, Stefan Woehrmann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@gebaerdenschrift.de" target="_blank">stefanwoehrmann@gebaerdenschrift.de</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" lang="DE" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">“The biggest change will be a status
for each entry.</span></font></p><div class="im"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><br>
* provisional<br>
* approved<br>
* nonstandard<br>
* rejected</font></div><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">Hi Steve <u></u><u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">– I am afraid that this will cause
problems – who am I to judge things like these categories ...no –
all I take care of as much as possible is to make sure that most entries should
be written correctly .. I do not stop to mention at any workshop or meeting
that it is not the question of signing or signlanguage what I am interested in –
as a SignWriting scribe – I am interested to write, whatever I see as a
given signing – performance. That is the reason that it is so wonderfull
to add several dialects or variations of a given sign/term ... Your new
categories should be entered in private puddles – people may hire a staff
or a group of a scientific comunity may want to think about this ... <u></u><u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">Just my idea <u></u><u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">Stefan <u></u><u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">“The biggest change will be a status
for each entry.</span></font></p><div class="im"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><br>
* provisional<br>
* approved<br>
* nonstandard<br>
* rejected</font></div><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></font><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold">Von:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext"> SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[mailto:<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Im
Auftrag von </span></b>Stephen E Slevinski Jr<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Gesendet:</span></b> Donnerstag, 12. Dezember
2013 17:52<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">An:</span></b>
<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Betreff:</span></b> Re: AW: Design for
SignPuddle 3: parts-of-speech and morphology of sign language</span></font><font><span style="color:windowtext"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></font></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On 12/12/13, 5:38 AM, Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" type="cite">
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Well I haven´t got the time, the knowledge, the
energy to work with more options as I do right now. I am happy that “find
by word” with different options ...and find by symbol is possible, <u></u><u></u></span></font><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">For my work at school there is nothing more
needed – as far as I can see now... <u></u><u></u></span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
Hi Stefan,<br>
<br>
No worries. I'll be fixing up the current usage and adding some new
functionality. Basic usage will stay the same and not require additional
steps or knowledge.<br>
<br>
The biggest change will be a status for each entry.<br>
* provisional<br>
* approved<br>
* nonstandard<br>
* rejected<br>
<br>
New entries are created as provisional. Editors can later mark the
entries as approved, nonstandard, or rejected.<br>
<br>
This is needed to clean up the search results and have a measure of a
dictionary's contents.<br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On 12/12/13, 9:57 AM, Valerie Sutton wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" type="cite">
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">After reading these comments, it sounds like to me it
is best not to include this feature of “morphology” in SignPuddle
3, when there may not be an equivalent in the sign language world that matches
such a term and it will only confuse all of us - it actually could be a
negative for the software.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I agree that there probably isn't a universal
morphology list. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">There are so many other features in SignPuddle 3 that
we need so badly…thank you for giving us those, Steve -<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
Hi Val, I understand there is a lot of pain. I'm trying to focus on what
needs done sooner rather than later. Thanks for your patience.<br>
<br>
The initial database design is working but needs to be cleaned up. The
design choices have far reaching implications and require serious
consideration. <br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On 12/11/13, 4:53 PM, Charles Butler wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" type="cite">
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">My only comment
is that I hope all dictionary entries don't require a linguist to actually put
them in or to find them. I have been excited about SignWriting because it has
allowed me to write what I actually sign, not describe it in a spoken language
for a third party. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
Hi Charles,<br>
<br>
The dictionary is to help support writers of all kinds. The additional
information is not required, but an optional description.<br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">That will become an impossible burden to
lexicographers. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Let's not think of it as a burden, but as a
possibility. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">The burden becomes impossible, and is no longer
useful to an actual user of SignWriting as a writing system, not a linguistic
tool. <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><font size="3" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Yes, SignWriting is a writing system and will stay
that way. The linguistic additions are outside of the SignWriting script
and not an integral part.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
-Steve<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div></div></div>
</div>
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