Hi Dali,<div><br></div><div>I have very good friend in Tunisia. Maybe she can work with you on development of Sign Writing in your country. Her name is Mariem Triki. Do you know her?</div><div><br></div><div>Denny<br><br>Sent from AOL Mobile Mail<br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Dali balti <livingtabernacle@YAHOO.FR><br>To: SW-L <SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU><br>Sent: Sat, Dec 21, 2013 09:51 PM<br>Subject: Re: SW-L Digest - 20 Dec 2013 to 21 Dec 2013 (#2013-354)<br><br><br>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_1_24561ce2-c424-4780-b146-2af3a25d4e4b">
<div class="aolReplacedBody"><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Hello dear Stefan!!!</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">I do not think you wrote an email, but an amazing project to help me teach with!</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">I read through it all, I like the idea to start with names, and as I
am Chinese teacher, and I know </div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Egyptian Hieroglyphic Language, I can see what you mean!</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Thank you for sharing this with me, brother!!!</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Blessings!</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Dali:D</div><div class="aolmail_yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <br> <br> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> Le Dimanche 22 décembre 2013 6h01, SW-L automatic digest system <<a href="mailto:LISTSERV@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">LISTSERV@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>> a écrit :<br> </font> </div> <div class="aolmail_y_msg_container">There are 4 messages totalling 587 lines in this issue.<br><br>Topics of the day:<br><br> 1. Teaching Signwriting to deaf children in Tunisia A PROPOSAL FOR ALL (3)<br> 2. AW: Teaching Signwriting to deaf children in Tunisia A PROPOSAL FOR ALL<br><br>________________________________________________<br><br><br>SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br><br>Valerie Sutton<br>SignWriting List moderator<br><a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br><br>Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<br><a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a><br><br>SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<br><a target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a><br><br>Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages<br><a target="_blank" href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 17:15:12 +0000<br>From: James Shepard-Kegl <<a href="mailto:kegl@MAINE.RR.COM">kegl@MAINE.RR.COM</a>><br>Subject: Re: Teaching Signwriting to deaf children in Tunisia A PROPOSAL FOR ALL<br><br>Fellow Signwriters, educators, linguists and signers,<br><br>I continue to mull over the request for materials for the little Tunisian project. I am ignoring the notion that SignWriting will help Deaf children with sounds (?????) or their "mother
tongue" (unless their mother is Deaf and signs and this means their "mother hand").<br><br>However, the request for materials to teach SignWriting is a valid request IF the request is really to teach signing, using SignWriting as an orthographic tool (which is what SW actually is.) I am sure that many of us have been developing such materials in one form or another for years. Maybe we could pool resources and efforts to produce something that many people will find truly useful.<br><br>Let's begin with a premise: Signed languages tend to be grammatically similar (not the same, but not all that different, either.) Vocabulary varies a lot, but all signed languages use classifiers and classifier clitics a great deal. All these languages follow syntax rules using spatial and locative verbs. This is the reason that natively fluent Deaf signers in one country pick up other signed languages so quickly, even when these
signers themselves cannot articulate their own grammar rules. (You don't have to know what a "predicate" is to use one properly in your sentence structure for your own language. On the other hand, it is very useful to know grammar labels and rules when you are trying to learn the language of somebody else.)<br><br>I keep making a big deal that you can't teach SignWriting unless you have developed reading material that is FUN to read. But, what I mean is that you want fun and engaging reading material to help teach signing -- and not just to Deaf children, but to their hearing siblings and parents/grandparents, as well.<br><br>I am picturing in my mind a text, divided into sections:<br><br>1) A RULES section that explains in detail the common grammar terms of signed languages. This section would use illustrations from many signed languages. And, this section would be translated into many spoken languages. (That is,
there would be an English version, a French version, an Arabic version, and so forth. The educator then purchases or is furnished with the specified version.) You will note that this section is intended for literate educators. An ASL version, or translation in other signed languages, would be really cool, too. Publishing something that will be understandable and helpful will not be easy. However, please bear in mind that the reason that most hearing administrators do not accept that signed languages are bona fide languages (and the reason that so many Deaf people don't believe it either is that publications like this are rare.)<br><br>2) A VOCABULARY section -- perhaps 1,000 signs -- again, specify the signed language you want. Each sign is depicted in photos or diagrams, SignWriting, and "the mother tongue". A cute illustration would be nice, too.<br><br>3) A SIGNWRITING WORKBOOK to accompany the
vocabulary section.<br><br>4) A READING section: 20 illustrated children's stories, to be practiced and enjoyed by all. If you produce a simple illustrated version of Little Red Riding Hood in German, it does not take a lot of effort to reproduce the same story in English. This should be even more true for signed languages.<br><br>This concept will take a lot of work -- several years, I expect. But, in the end, when someone somewhere asks for materials to teach SignWriting, we will have something really impressive, fun and useful to offer.<br><br>-- James<br><br>________________________________________________<br><br><br>SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br><br>Valerie Sutton<br>SignWriting List moderator<br><a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br><br>Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<br><a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a><br><br>SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<br><a target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a><br><br>Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages<br><a target="_blank" href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 14:16:41 -0800<br>From: Valerie Sutton <<a href="mailto:signwriting@MAC.COM">signwriting@MAC.COM</a>><br>Subject: Re: Teaching Signwriting to deaf children in Tunisia A PROPOSAL FOR ALL<br><br>SignWriting List<br>December 21, 2013<br><br>Hello James, Dali, and everyone who teaches SignWriting around the world…and there are many people who do
now… and each country, and each teacher, teaches differently and uses different materials… I hope to post these materials on the web for download...<br><br>Thank you for this email, James, and I agree that the materials you describe below sound excellent and are needed - and thank you also for the books and literature you have written in Nicaraguan Sign Language already, in SignWriting…I have barely been able to keep up with posting all the documents - There are sooooo many documents that have been sent to me privately that have not yet been posted on our web site, it is a true shame…So I will try to rectify this in 2014 if I can… Maybe if I can keep up my strength we will have more and more materials posted in 2014 -<br><br>Regarding Tunisia, I just want to explain that we are all blessed with Professor Mohamed Dali Balti, who is diligently translating some of our books and materials into Tunisian Sign Language and Arabic and French - the
languages of Tunisia. There are two such books that Dali has just sent to me in the past two weeks…one a textbook on SignWriting Hand Symbols used in Tunisian Sign Language, based on Adam Frost’s work, and the other is a beautiful translation of our Beginner’s Workbook in SignWriting…the Goldilocks coloring book…that we use in the SignWriting Literacy Project.<br><br>Both books are large enough that I think I need to post them on our web site first, and then write again with the links to download the books, rather than post them directly here on the List. Also, Dali has written other children’s stories in SignWriting in Tunisian Sign Language, and I believe one of them is Little Red Riding Hood, which you mention, James below…. so Tunisia is one country that is moving towards your goals, James -<br><br>I will write again with the links to the Tunisian documents -<br><br>And there is now a book from Slovenia - Slovenia is also teaching
SignWriting to Deaf children - more on that too -<br><br>Val ;-)<br><br>---------<br><br>On Dec 21, 2013, at 9:15 AM, James Shepard-Kegl <<a href="mailto:kegl@maine.rr.com">kegl@maine.rr.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>> Fellow Signwriters, educators, linguists and signers,<br>> <br>> I continue to mull over the request for materials for the little Tunisian project. I am ignoring the notion that SignWriting will help Deaf children with sounds (?????) or their "mother tongue" (unless their mother is Deaf and signs and this means their "mother hand").<br>> <br>> However, the request for materials to teach SignWriting is a valid request IF the request is really to teach signing, using SignWriting as an orthographic tool (which is what SW actually is.) I am sure that many of us have been developing such materials in one form or another for years. Maybe we could pool resources and efforts
to produce something that many people will find truly useful.<br>> <br>> Let's begin with a premise: Signed languages tend to be grammatically similar (not the same, but not all that different, either.) Vocabulary varies a lot, but all signed languages use classifiers and classifier clitics a great deal. All these languages follow syntax rules using spatial and locative verbs. This is the reason that natively fluent Deaf signers in one country pick up other signed languages so quickly, even when these signers themselves cannot articulate their own grammar rules. (You don't have to know what a "predicate" is to use one properly in your sentence structure for your own language. On the other hand, it is very useful to know grammar labels and rules when you are trying to learn the language of somebody else.)<br>> <br>> I keep making a big deal that you can't teach SignWriting unless you have developed reading
material that is FUN to read. But, what I mean is that you want fun and engaging reading material to help teach signing -- and not just to Deaf children, but to their hearing siblings and parents/grandparents, as well.<br>> <br>> I am picturing in my mind a text, divided into sections:<br>> <br>> 1) A RULES section that explains in detail the common grammar terms of signed languages. This section would use illustrations from many signed languages. And, this section would be translated into many spoken languages. (That is, there would be an English version, a French version, an Arabic version, and so forth. The educator then purchases or is furnished with the specified version.) You will note that this section is intended for literate educators. An ASL version, or translation in other signed languages, would be really cool, too. Publishing something that will be understandable and helpful will
not be easy. However, please bear in mind that the reason that most hearing administrators do not accept that signed languages are bona fide languages (and the reason that so many Deaf people don't believe it either is that publications like this are rare.)<br>> <br>> 2) A VOCABULARY section -- perhaps 1,000 signs -- again, specify the signed language you want. Each sign is depicted in photos or diagrams, SignWriting, and "the mother tongue". A cute illustration would be nice, too.<br>> <br>> 3) A SIGNWRITING WORKBOOK to accompany the vocabulary section.<br>> <br>> 4) A READING section: 20 illustrated children's stories, to be practiced and enjoyed by all. If you produce a simple illustrated version of Little Red Riding Hood in German, it does not take a lot of effort to reproduce the same story in English. This should be even more true for signed languages.<br>> <br>> This
concept will take a lot of work -- several years, I expect. But, in the end, when someone somewhere asks for materials to teach SignWriting, we will have something really impressive, fun and useful to offer.<br>> <br>> -- James<br>> <br>> ________________________________________________<br>> <br>> <br>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br>> <br>> Valerie Sutton<br>> SignWriting List moderator<br>> <a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br>> <br>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<br>> <a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a><br>> <br>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<br>> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a><br>> <br>> Join, Leave or Change
How You Receive SW List Messages<br>> <a target="_blank" href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a><br>> <br><br>________________________________________________<br><br><br>SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br><br>Valerie Sutton<br>SignWriting List moderator<br><a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br><br>Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<br><a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a><br><br>SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<br><a target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a><br><br>Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages<br><a target="_blank" href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 03:10:56 +0100<br>From: Stefan Woehrmann <<a href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE">stefanwoehrmann@GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE</a>><br>Subject: AW: Teaching Signwriting to deaf children in Tunisia A PROPOSAL FOR ALL<br><br>Hello friends of the SignWriting-list<br><br>it is my job day by day to support deaf students on their way to develop<br>Spoken Language Skills. <br><br>Yes - all my efforts concentrate day by day to enlarge the vocabulary,<br>grammar, pronounciation of Spoken Language for my deaf students. <br><br>In order to allow them to reach this goal I incorporate Signwriting or<br>GebaerdenSchrift as we call it here in Germany in my curriculum no matter<br>what. <br><br>I agree with James that the
first step has to be communication. There is no<br>doubt about that. You have to make sure, that the deaf kids understand the<br>Signlanguage performance. So we comunicate in Signlanguage. I ask questions<br>and wait for the students answers. Again and again and again. <br><br>We start ... we always start with the sign names of students and teachers<br>and important persons of our school life. Just point to a person and sign<br>his name-sign ... or show a foto of the person and sign the name - sign. <br><br>Once the student understands his own sign name - it is very easy for him to<br>accept the written Sign name in SignWriting. It is so much fun every time to<br>see this process of one-shot learning. Just show to him or to her her<br>written Signname and she will identify this very important "pictogramm"<br>within a percentage of a second among hundreds of other pictogramms. <br>Pictogramms I call the written sign. Since I do not ask my students
for a<br>long time to write SignWriting but only to understand to read the signs they<br>do not look at this combination of different symbols as I do as an<br>experienced scribe. In fact - it is so much fun to just accept that the<br>students and beginners focus on this or that but catch the idea ob the<br>meaning that this written symbol stands for. They would not be able to<br>create such a sign with the SignMaker option in the SignPuddle. This is no<br>problem at all ... relax!<br><br>There is a big difference between reading and writing SignWriting. It took<br>me such a long time to understand that this writing system is very, very<br>easy to read but at the same time pretty difficult to write. Adult beginners<br>get a good chance to develop writing skills within a reasonable time if they<br>ask constantly for feedback and if an experienced scribe can support them.<br><br>No serious teacher would ask a child at the age of 3 to 6 to start to
write<br>SignWriting. I cannot think of this. On the other hand - experience shows<br>that already my very young son started to read or to understand , to<br>identify the meaning of signs written in Signwriting long before he would<br>have been able to read written German.<br><br>At the age of 3 years Gordian was able to read and sign written sentences in<br>SignWriting/GebaerdenSchrift as long as they were written following the<br>grammar of Spoken German. <br><br>Well that is exactly what I am looking for if I support a ten year old deaf<br>student. I would be happy if this student would be able to write the words<br>that go along with a sequence of written signs. But this is only the first<br>step. The ultimate goal should be that he/she understands to express an idea<br>that is understood in both systems- Sign Language and Spoken Language. <br><br>I am confronted day by day by day with this difficult situation. While<br>hearing
children just have to learn the facts and ideas of any subject my<br>deaf students are in the difficult position to learn the contents in a dual<br>manner. First of all they have to understand the content, the facts ...but<br>that is not enough. They have to learn the terms of Spoken German as well.<br>They have to be able to read the texts - written in German. They have to<br>understand the questions of written tests and to be able to answer the<br>questions in written German. <br><br>This is not fair since they have to perform way above the level of hearing<br>children - but this is what life asks them to do. <br><br>With the support of bilingual documents (written in German and signed German<br>(GebaerdenSchrift as Signed German) they get the chance to achieve this<br>level of competence so much better. <br><br>I will always be grateful to Valerie Sutton for this brilliant invention.<br><br>Well - reading about this project in Tunesia I asked
myself - what are they<br>going to do. What are their goals? It is strange that there is a scientific<br>project in the first place and deaf (???) children who deserve the best<br>support you may think of to achieve literacy will just kind of serve/<br>volonteer to deliver data to allow a scientist to get his study done? <br><br>Contrary to James I am very eager to combine Spoken Language and Sign<br>Language as early as possible. <br>Once the deaf child understands to communicate a concept, an idea, a<br>question in Signlanguage I would love to show to him or to her that this<br>same process can be run in a written form via SignWriting. So I write this<br>same dialogue in GebaerdenSchrift - very often simple questions and answers.<br>We read and sign these documents together and share our happyness that<br>SignWriting allows us to read, to think, to sign, to understand so easily. <br><br>But this is not the end. Next step is to make sure that the
students accepts<br>the task to read and understand the same idea in written Spoken Language. <br><br>In the end it would not matter what kind of document (Sign Language or<br>Spoken Language) is shown and understood. <br><br>In former times when there has not been the option to offer SignWriting<br>documents deaf students had been confronted only with documents written in<br>Spoken Language. The students had to copy these documents but it took them<br>so tremendously long to develop a higher level of competence to read and<br>write. <br><br>On January 6th 2014 a new deaf student from Rumania will start in our class<br>at the age of 14.. So far as I know he will have to start from scratch. He<br>has to learn everything - our way of fingerspelling, our way of writing,<br>German Sign Languag signs, German words... <br><br>I do have a lot of experience in this field. This time I will try to<br>document his progress every day and it is so amazing
again and again and<br>again that if there are not several other handicaps at the same time deaf<br>students from everywhere understand to communicate in Sign Language so<br>quickly. They read the first SignWriting documents the very first day - with<br>a big smile in their faces. They understand questions and answers and start<br>the process to develop Spoken Language skills.<br><br>Regarding this project in Tunisia I would offer to contact me via Skype.<br>Maybe I can explain in a face to face situation much better what would be a<br>a promising approach.<br>At any rate I would not teach single symbols, the meaning of arrows or other<br>SignWriting issues. I would simply start on the basis of "Pictograms" as I<br>explained before. <br><br>Starting with a piece of paper showing the name of a student - you can sign<br>his name-sign and put it in front of this student on the floor. Same with<br>all the other students and teacher of this group. Now take
all the sheets<br>away, mix them up and ask a student to find the correct match of a student<br>and his written sign-name. <br><br>Same matching - game with numbers, colors, animals, ... <br><br>Reading stories in SignWriting is a wonderfull thing as long as students get<br>the chance to translate these stories in a correct way into Spoken Language.<br>...<br><br><br>Wow ... a long statement ..hope you got the time to read it till the end. -<br>smile <br><br>All best <br><br>Stefan <br><br><br><br><br><br>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<br>Von: SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages<br>[mailto:<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>] Im Auftrag von Valerie Sutton<br>Gesendet: Samstag, 21. Dezember 2013 23:17<br>An: <a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>Betreff: Re: Teaching Signwriting to deaf children in Tunisia A PROPOSAL FOR<br>ALL<br><br>SignWriting List<br>December 21, 2013<br><br>Hello James, Dali, and everyone who teaches SignWriting around the world…and<br>there are many people who do now… and each country, and each teacher,<br>teaches differently and uses different materials… I hope to post these<br>materials on the web for download...<br><br>Thank you for this email, James, and I agree that the materials you describe<br>below sound excellent and are needed - and thank you also for the books and<br>literature you have written in Nicaraguan Sign Language already, in<br>SignWriting…I have barely been able to keep up with posting all the<br>documents - There are sooooo many documents that have been sent to me<br>privately that have not yet been posted on our web site, it is a true<br>shame…So I
will try to rectify this in 2014 if I can… Maybe if I can keep up<br>my strength we will have more and more materials posted in 2014 -<br><br>Regarding Tunisia, I just want to explain that we are all blessed with<br>Professor Mohamed Dali Balti, who is diligently translating some of our<br>books and materials into Tunisian Sign Language and Arabic and French - the<br>languages of Tunisia. There are two such books that Dali has just sent to me<br>in the past two weeks…one a textbook on SignWriting Hand Symbols used in<br>Tunisian Sign Language, based on Adam Frost’s work, and the other is a<br>beautiful translation of our Beginner’s Workbook in SignWriting…the<br>Goldilocks coloring book…that we use in the SignWriting Literacy Project.<br><br>Both books are large enough that I think I need to post them on our web site<br>first, and then write again with the links to download the books, rather<br>than post them directly here on the List. Also,
Dali has written other<br>children’s stories in SignWriting in Tunisian Sign Language, and I believe<br>one of them is Little Red Riding Hood, which you mention, James below…. so<br>Tunisia is one country that is moving towards your goals, James -<br><br>I will write again with the links to the Tunisian documents -<br><br>And there is now a book from Slovenia - Slovenia is also teaching<br>SignWriting to Deaf children - more on that too -<br><br>Val ;-)<br><br>---------<br><br>On Dec 21, 2013, at 9:15 AM, James Shepard-Kegl <<a href="mailto:kegl@maine.rr.com">kegl@maine.rr.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>> Fellow Signwriters, educators, linguists and signers,<br>> <br>> I continue to mull over the request for materials for the little Tunisian<br>project. I am ignoring the notion that SignWriting will help Deaf children<br>with sounds (?????) or their "mother tongue" (unless their mother is
Deaf<br>and signs and this means their "mother hand").<br>> <br>> However, the request for materials to teach SignWriting is a valid request<br>IF the request is really to teach signing, using SignWriting as an<br>orthographic tool (which is what SW actually is.) I am sure that many of us<br>have been developing such materials in one form or another for years. Maybe<br>we could pool resources and efforts to produce something that many people<br>will find truly useful.<br>> <br>> Let's begin with a premise: Signed languages tend to be grammatically<br>similar (not the same, but not all that different, either.) Vocabulary<br>varies a lot, but all signed languages use classifiers and classifier<br>clitics a great deal. All these languages follow syntax rules using spatial<br>and locative verbs. This is the reason that natively fluent Deaf signers in<br>one country pick up other signed languages so quickly,
even when these<br>signers themselves cannot articulate their own grammar rules. (You don't<br>have to know what a "predicate" is to use one properly in your sentence<br>structure for your own language. On the other hand, it is very useful to<br>know grammar labels and rules when you are trying to learn the language of<br>somebody else.)<br>> <br>> I keep making a big deal that you can't teach SignWriting unless you have<br>developed reading material that is FUN to read. But, what I mean is that<br>you want fun and engaging reading material to help teach signing -- and not<br>just to Deaf children, but to their hearing siblings and<br>parents/grandparents, as well.<br>> <br>> I am picturing in my mind a text, divided into sections:<br>> <br>> 1) A RULES section that explains in detail the common grammar terms of<br>signed languages. This section would use illustrations from many signed<br>languages. And,
this section would be translated into many spoken<br>languages. (That is, there would be an English version, a French version,<br>an Arabic version, and so forth. The educator then purchases or is<br>furnished with the specified version.) You will note that this section is<br>intended for literate educators. An ASL version, or translation in other<br>signed languages, would be really cool, too. Publishing something that will<br>be understandable and helpful will not be easy. However, please bear in<br>mind that the reason that most hearing administrators do not accept that<br>signed languages are bona fide languages (and the reason that so many Deaf<br>people don't believe it either is that publications like this are rare.)<br>> <br>> 2) A VOCABULARY section -- perhaps 1,000 signs -- again, specify the<br>signed language you want. Each sign is depicted in photos or diagrams,<br>SignWriting, and "the
mother tongue". A cute illustration would be nice,<br>too.<br>> <br>> 3) A SIGNWRITING WORKBOOK to accompany the vocabulary section.<br>> <br>> 4) A READING section: 20 illustrated children's stories, to be practiced<br>and enjoyed by all. If you produce a simple illustrated version of Little<br>Red Riding Hood in German, it does not take a lot of effort to reproduce the<br>same story in English. This should be even more true for signed languages.<br>> <br>> This concept will take a lot of work -- several years, I expect. But, in<br>the end, when someone somewhere asks for materials to teach SignWriting, we<br>will have something really impressive, fun and useful to offer.<br>> <br>> -- James<br>> <br>> ________________________________________________<br>> <br>> <br>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br>> <br>> Valerie Sutton<br>> SignWriting List moderator<br>> <a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br>> <br>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<br>> <a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a><br>> <br>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<br>> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a><br>> <br>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages<br>> <a target="_blank" href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a><br>> <br><br>________________________________________________<br><br><br>SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br><br>Valerie Sutton<br>SignWriting List moderator<br><a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br><br>Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<br><a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a><br><br>SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<br><a target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a><br><br>Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages<br><a target="_blank" href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a><br><br>________________________________________________<br><br><br>SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br><br>Valerie Sutton<br>SignWriting List moderator<br><a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br><br>Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<br><a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a><br><br>SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<br><a target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a><br><br>Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages<br><a target="_blank" href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 03:44:15 +0000<br>From: James Shepard-Kegl <<a href="mailto:kegl@MAINE.RR.COM">kegl@MAINE.RR.COM</a>><br>Subject: Re: Teaching Signwriting to deaf children in Tunisia A PROPOSAL FOR ALL<br><br>Valerie et al,<br><br>I am very gratified to see all the story adaptations in so many signed languages that
are appearing on the web lately. This is part of a long process. I do think a grammar book, as challenging as it would be, would be very useful. As I said before, I think we could make one for signed languages generally -- if we do so carefully. Maybe others already have and I am just too isolated of late to know.<br><br>-- James<br><br><br>---- Valerie Sutton <<a href="mailto:signwriting@MAC.COM">signwriting@MAC.COM</a>> wrote: <br>> SignWriting List<br>> December 21, 2013<br>> <br>> Hello James, Dali, and everyone who teaches SignWriting around the world…and there are many people who do now… and each country, and each teacher, teaches differently and uses different materials… I hope to post these materials on the web for download...<br>> <br>> Thank you for this email, James, and I agree that the materials you describe below sound excellent and
are needed - and thank you also for the books and literature you have written in Nicaraguan Sign Language already, in SignWriting…I have barely been able to keep up with posting all the documents - There are sooooo many documents that have been sent to me privately that have not yet been posted on our web site, it is a true shame…So I will try to rectify this in 2014 if I can… Maybe if I can keep up my strength we will have more and more materials posted in 2014 -<br>> <br>> Regarding Tunisia, I just want to explain that we are all blessed with Professor Mohamed Dali Balti, who is diligently translating some of our books and materials into Tunisian Sign Language and Arabic and French - the languages of Tunisia. There are two such books that Dali has just sent to me in the past two weeks…one a textbook on SignWriting Hand Symbols used in Tunisian Sign Language, based on Adam Frost’s work, and the other is a beautiful
translation of our Beginner’s Workbook in SignWriting…the Goldilocks coloring book…that we use in the SignWriting Literacy Project.<br>> <br>> Both books are large enough that I think I need to post them on our web site first, and then write again with the links to download the books, rather than post them directly here on the List. Also, Dali has written other children’s stories in SignWriting in Tunisian Sign Language, and I believe one of them is Little Red Riding Hood, which you mention, James below…. so Tunisia is one country that is moving towards your goals, James -<br>> <br>> I will write again with the links to the Tunisian documents -<br>> <br>> And there is now a book from Slovenia - Slovenia is also teaching SignWriting to Deaf children - more on that too -<br>> <br>> Val ;-)<br>> <br>> ---------<br>> <br>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 9:15 AM, James Shepard-Kegl <<a href="mailto:kegl@maine.rr.com">kegl@maine.rr.com</a>> wrote:<br>> <br>> > Fellow Signwriters, educators, linguists and signers,<br>> > <br>> > I continue to mull over the request for materials for the little Tunisian project. I am ignoring the notion that SignWriting will help Deaf children with sounds (?????) or their "mother tongue" (unless their mother is Deaf and signs and this means their "mother hand").<br>> > <br>> > However, the request for materials to teach SignWriting is a valid request IF the request is really to teach signing, using SignWriting as an orthographic tool (which is what SW actually is.) I am sure that many of us have been developing such materials in one form or another for years. Maybe we could pool resources and efforts to produce something that many people will find truly useful.<br>> > <br>> > Let's begin with a
premise: Signed languages tend to be grammatically similar (not the same, but not all that different, either.) Vocabulary varies a lot, but all signed languages use classifiers and classifier clitics a great deal. All these languages follow syntax rules using spatial and locative verbs. This is the reason that natively fluent Deaf signers in one country pick up other signed languages so quickly, even when these signers themselves cannot articulate their own grammar rules. (You don't have to know what a "predicate" is to use one properly in your sentence structure for your own language. On the other hand, it is very useful to know grammar labels and rules when you are trying to learn the language of somebody else.)<br>> > <br>> > I keep making a big deal that you can't teach SignWriting unless you have developed reading material that is FUN to read. But, what I mean is that you want fun and engaging
reading material to help teach signing -- and not just to Deaf children, but to their hearing siblings and parents/grandparents, as well.<br>> > <br>> > I am picturing in my mind a text, divided into sections:<br>> > <br>> > 1) A RULES section that explains in detail the common grammar terms of signed languages. This section would use illustrations from many signed languages. And, this section would be translated into many spoken languages. (That is, there would be an English version, a French version, an Arabic version, and so forth. The educator then purchases or is furnished with the specified version.) You will note that this section is intended for literate educators. An ASL version, or translation in other signed languages, would be really cool, too. Publishing something that will be understandable and helpful will not be easy. However, please bear in mind that the reason that
most hearing administrators do not accept that signed languages are bona fide languages (and the reason that so many Deaf people don't believe it either is that publications like this are rare.)<br>> > <br>> > 2) A VOCABULARY section -- perhaps 1,000 signs -- again, specify the signed language you want. Each sign is depicted in photos or diagrams, SignWriting, and "the mother tongue". A cute illustration would be nice, too.<br>> > <br>> > 3) A SIGNWRITING WORKBOOK to accompany the vocabulary section.<br>> > <br>> > 4) A READING section: 20 illustrated children's stories, to be practiced and enjoyed by all. If you produce a simple illustrated version of Little Red Riding Hood in German, it does not take a lot of effort to reproduce the same story in English. This should be even more true for signed languages.<br>> > <br>> > This concept will take a lot of work
-- several years, I expect. But, in the end, when someone somewhere asks for materials to teach SignWriting, we will have something really impressive, fun and useful to offer.<br>> > <br>> > -- James<br>> > <br>> > ________________________________________________<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br>> > <br>> > Valerie Sutton<br>> > SignWriting List moderator<br>> > <a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br>> > <br>> > Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<br>> > <a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a><br>> > <br>> > SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<br>> > <a target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a><br>> > <br>> > Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages<br>> > <a target="_blank" href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a><br>> > <br>> <br>> ________________________________________________<br>> <br>> <br>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br>> <br>> Valerie Sutton<br>> SignWriting List moderator<br>> <a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br>> <br>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<br>> <a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a><br>> <br>> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<br>> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a><br>> <br>> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages<br>> <a target="_blank" href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a><br>> <br><br>________________________________________________<br><br><br>SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br><br>Valerie Sutton<br>SignWriting List moderator<br><a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br><br>Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<br><a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a><br><br>SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<br><a target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a><br><br>Join, Leave or Change How You
Receive SW List Messages<br><a target="_blank" href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>End of SW-L Digest - 20 Dec 2013 to 21 Dec 2013 (#2013-354)<br>***********************************************************<br><br><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div> </div></div>
________________________________________________
<p>
</p><p>
SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
</p><p>
Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
<a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a>
</p><p>
Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
<a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a>
</p><p>
SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
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</p></div>
</div>
________________________________________________
<p>
<p>
SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
<p>
Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
sutton@signwriting.org
<p>
Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu
<p>
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