<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Oh yes, I think there is still more research to be done of course :)<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Jan 4, 2014, at 2:09 AM, "Stefan Woehrmann" <<a href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE">stefanwoehrmann@GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Good morning Valerie and
sw-list members, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">thank you very much to
take the time to read my message about the way I use SignWriting with my
students every day. Well it it as Erika already mentioned. She came to our
school, stayed for several weeks and day by day the students made us curious
about the question “what are they doing with their mouth (lips) “
while they sign. The results are surprising... and I would not believe that
this could happen before. ..and Erika you see that there is still more to look
at ...big smile. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Now reading your message
...wow the same principles might be true for fingerspelling movements. At least
my students (most of them) would not think of letters (as we do) if they sign
with hand shapes derived from the fingerspelling – ABC ...But thanks for
this idea, I will try to find out next week when holidays are over. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">And yes Valerie, my
students are at age about 20 years and they are doing great ..and the feedback
about their achievements makes me feel proud and happy. . ..But of course this
is not just about me ...They are just wonderful people. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Have a great weekend
everybody<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">All <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">Von:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages
[<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Im
Auftrag </span></b></span></font><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">von </span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">Valerie
Sutton<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Gesendet:</span></b> Freitag, 3. Januar 2014
19:56<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">An:</span></b>
<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Betreff:</span></b> Re: Teaching Signwriting
to deaf children in Tunisia A PROPOSAL FOR ALL</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">SignWriting List<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">January 3, 2014<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">Hello Stefan -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">THANK YOU, for the in-depth message below, which you wrote before
Christmas, to the List. I confess I just read it this morning - but I am so
glad that I did… I really enjoyed reading it, and as always, I am
impressed and amazed at your work, and grateful to you too, for using
SignWriting all these years with your Deaf students. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">If I remember correctly, you have already graduated one class of Deaf
students, who used SignWriting for over a decade in your classroom? … and
now you have a new young crop of Deaf students, who are the second class to
learn SignWriting for a decade, or at least will - smile - is this correct? I
think this is important because I am curious how your students who graduated
already (now that they are older and out in the world) … how are they
doing? I am sure your attentive teaching style gave them a great foundation to
base their adult lives upon, in this complex world of today -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">I was interested to learn of your idea for further research on how
signers read mouth movements that are connected with spoken language words,
that are mouthed while signing…A research study of the future could try
to investigate if Deaf people connect spoken language with mouthing, or is it
really just a part of the signing experience?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">The same research-style question could arise related to ASL
fingerspelling. ASL signers use a lot of fingerspelling, and for hearing people
like myself, (I am not skilled at reading fingerspelling), I have been amazed
at my lack of ability to connect fingerspelling with my own native language,
English. It also seems surprising to me that Deaf people read fingerspelling so
well, when some of them are not necessarily English-focused …so there
seems to be a disconnect between signing along with using mouthing or fingerspelling,
and reading a spoken language on paper.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">I think Deaf Education is very hard, because each school, and indeed
each classroom, is like its own little culture, with a set of circumstances
that is unique to itself. It is impossible to judge a teacher or student
without being there in the classroom and seeing all the communication that
transpires. What matters, I would assume, is to educate and inspire students,
and I would also assume that teachers have to take into account how their
school administrators feel, how their fellow teachers feel in that specific
school, and most important, how the parents and home-life of each student
“feels” to that student.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">Seeing it from this perspective, it makes one realize that no matter
how idealistic we are, about wanting “pure ASL” or “pure
DGS” for Deaf students, the truth is that we all live in a hodgepodge of
languages and cultures now, because of globalization and also the internet and
so many other multi-tasking influences, and “pure” ANY language is
rare and difficult to find today - People are using Texting spelling when
writing English for example and I am left behind at times, since I have never
texted - and Deaf students need to adjust to so many more factors than hearing
people - it is mind boggling to think about what they have to learn in such a
stressful, multi-tasking world -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">That is one of the reasons why I am glad that with the SignWriting
script we can preserve and write the sign languages of the world, in their
purer forms, as they are signed right now, so that future generations can see
how signing was done in past generations, since languages continually change
- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">I hope you get great joy out of teaching and writing and creating new
documents and ideas and art in 2014!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">Val ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">———<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">On Dec 22, 2013, at 3:58 PM, Stefan Wöhrmann <<a href="mailto:stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM">stefanwoehrmann@GOOGLEMAIL.COM</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div link="blue" vlink="blue" style="orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Hi Erika, James, Val and
friends...<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Thank you Erika for your
comment. I am afraid that my English is not good enough to describe what I have
on my mind and I appreciate your message as a comment about your first-hand
experience in my classes over the years...;-))<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Well James,<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-18.0pt"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">1)</span></font><font size="1" color="navy"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:7.0pt;color:navy"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy">It is as Erika explains it perfectly. You honestly will not assume
that I do not know the difference between Signed German and DGS (German Sign
Language) – and as I started with my privous message: The first step is
to assure that teacher and student and students among each other can
communicate. Within a group of deaf people this communication is done in
SignLanguage ( not Signed German). <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">At the end of this
learning adventure any student should be able to switch between the two systems
Signlanguage and Spoken Language. Some of my students develop a high motivation
to work hard to improve their articulation – others do no like to speak.
Nevertheless all of them are exspected to become competent in both Languages
(Sign Language and Spoken Language) This is<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font><font size="2" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial">definitely not only a<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font><span lang="EN-GB">BI-MODEL
methodology – as you call it but a bilingual approach.<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">“Use it if you must; but recognize it for what
it is.” Hm – in between the lines I can see the frown on your
face. Signed German ... you never would use that. Am I right? – smile
- It is as Erika might be able to explain much better. The step in
between the start and the end of our learning procedure is to support deaf
students with Signed German. Experience has shown that the students achieve
bilingual competence so much faster if they get the chance to read and
“translate” written documents that show signs written in the
grammar of Spoken German.<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">Next step will be to demonstrate the contrast between
Signlanguage and Spoken Language. They understand much better and in the end it
is a pure bilingual approach and the students translate from one system inot
the other in both directions. .<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">Thanks to our delegs-editor – the most effective
tool for building the bridge between Spoken Language and Signlanguage -
you can do this back and forth thing so easily. It is your job to write
any document within seconds in whatever style you want to. If you want to
create SignLanguage document – just write the words that pick the signs
from the dictionary – edit the signs to appropriate DGS oder ASL and hide
the words afterwards. Same thing with Signed German documents. ...I am so
gratefull that it has become so easy to offer lots and lots and lots of
documents every day with this brilliant DELEGS – software.<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:36.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-18.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">2)</span></font><font size="1"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:7.0pt"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font><span lang="EN-GB">Hi
James – when I referr to name-signs in SignWriting as pictograms –
I cannot see any negative aspect in this. My experiments in this field show
clearly that you and me and other experienced scribes look at these
arrangements of single symbols which we take out of the big ISWA –box
with other eyes. And we read the given signs in a analytic way. We understand
the meaning of the single symbols. Many well written signs seem to become a
“Gute Gestalt” and the deaf child and some beginners who start to
read SignWriting do not analyze and even do not know ( and do not have to)
about all the decisions the scribe has made while he choose to write the sign
in this way. It is amazing – and funny at the same time – to see
that a well known sign – ( a sign that is identified within part of a
second) can be changed (in the sense of misspelled) and the deaf child would
not hesitate to “read” it the same way as before... I did some
private research on this and it is really tremendously interesting. Hi Erica -
.... smile!<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:18.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:18.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">“...by that logic, showing the kid his written
German name is also using a pictogram” – yes of course – as
long as the child has no idea about any method to interpret the graphems in any
way as options how to encourage somebody to speak what is written – and
that is of course a long journey especially for deaf kids.<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:18.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:18.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">“-- a jumble of otherwise pointless letters
whose order must be memorized.” In order to change this I invented
this new notation system for sound-based symbols. “Mundbildschrift”
= “Woehrmanns Speech-Writing”<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:18.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:18.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">This exactly is the basis why I invented my
“Speech-Writing –System” ... but this is a whole other story
and people get confused because of two different systems - a VISUALLY
PHONETIC system (as used in my mouthgestures “Mundbilder” in
Signwriting) and an aural based phonetic code in this case
“Mundbildschrift”<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
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<div style="margin-left:18.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-18.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">3)</span></font><font size="1"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:7.0pt"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font><span lang="EN-GB">“German
employs an aural based phonetic code..” ..ha...yes .... well there
are a lot of problems beause this matching of letters and sounds does not work
in German... too many exceptions... This causes problems in the context of
lipreading, It is a severe fault to tell a hearing child – just write
what you hear – it does not work. You better should say look at the
spelling of this German word (just as a string of letters) and listen to me.
You hear the way we pronounce this word. Just accept that and obey the spelling.<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">From my point of view deaf students expand their
vocabulary of Spoken German much better if they get the chance to associate
with given words some kind of tongue, mouth, lip –movement –
feedback. How does it feel if you pronounce the word Reagenzglas,
Universalindikator, Koordinatenkreuz, Baden-Württemberg. A combination of
reading the word, looking at the appropriate sign in SignWriting along with the
mouth-gestures as you find them constantly in the German SignPuddle allows deaf
students to speed up with the aqcuisition of new terms.<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">Deaf students can read SignWriting documents at high
speed even if they do now know about the meaning of the (isolated) symbols.
I am still in the beginning to understand this and to accept this and to
arrange experiments in order to find more about that.<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">When Erika did her research project in my classes it
has been almost like a mystery to both of us that deaf students move their lips
or read a sign in GebaerdenSchrift with Mundbilder – and nevertheless do
not associate these mouth movements with German words as we do. We referr
in this case to some association of the spoken word – while a deaf child
might perform this part of the sign just as a movement part of the lips not
knowing that the lipreading would lead to a quick identification of the German
word. ... There is probably still lots of room for research – right
Erika? You are very welcome to visit us again any time. You want me ask if you
can rent the appartement again? Your research and the way you expalin these
questions to me are a very welcome source for greater attention.<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">Hope this helps – sorry for my English ;-(<u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt">All best Stefan <u1:p></u1:p></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">Von:</span></font></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> </span></font></span><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">SignWriting
List: Read and Write Sign Languages [<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">mailto:SW-L@LISTSE</a></span></font><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">RV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Im
Auftrag von<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Erika
Hoffmann-Dilloway<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Gesendet:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Sonntag, 22. Dezember 2013 23:18<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">An:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Betreff:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: Teaching Signwriting to deaf
children in Tunisia A PROPOSAL FOR ALL</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<u1:p></u1:p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">Hi James - Stefan can of course speak for himself, but since I'm at the
computer I'll just briefly note from my observations in his class he does use
both German Sign Language and Signed German - and clearly treats them as
different codes (i.e., SG is framed as German in a different modality not as a
sign language). I think he was focusing on his use of Signed German in his
earlier message to highlight the ways in which he thinks SW can be useful for
teaching a spoken language. I'd never been comfortable with the use of a signed
version of a spoken language in other educational settings I've observed, but
the way that Stefan distinguishes it from German Sign Language and uses each to
different ends - or as a means to compare grammatical structures between the
two codes- was really interesting.<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">Stefan, please correct me if I'm misframing anything you do.<br>
Best,<br>
Erika<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 5:08 PM, James Shepard-Kegl <<a href="mailto:kegl@maine.rr.com" target="_blank">kegl@maine.rr.com</a>> wrote:<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:
12.0pt">Stefan,<br>
<br>
I think you and I are going to have to respectfully disagree.<br>
<br>
I would point out some issues for all:<br>
<br>
1) The methodology that Stefan has described is not a BILINGUAL approach;
rather, it is a BI-MODEL methodology. Signed German is not a language
different from German; it is a manual form of German. Use it if you must;
but recognize it for what it is.<br>
<br>
2) Referring to name-signs in SignWriting as pictograms may be appropriate
for a Deaf child on his or her first day of school, but know this: by
that logic, showing the kid his written German name is also using a pictogram.<br>
<br>
3) It truly is more difficult to write a sign than to recognize one.
But, that is true of written English and German, too. Both
othorgraphic systems are phonetic systems: German employs an aural based
phonetic code; SignWriting is, if you will, a VISUALLY PHONETIC system.
Most hearing children use a whole word approach when learning to read,
but understand that the code itself is based on sounds that are put together to
form words. AND HERE IS MY POINT: To Deaf chidren, a written German
word is a pictogram -- a jumble of otherwise pointless letters whose order must
be memorized. But, when shown how SignWriting works, these children can
immediately appreciate the concept that writing systems use a code. In
the case of SignWriting, that code is merely symbols for handshapes, movement
and direction, contact, location, etc. Only when a Deaf child recognizes
this, can he or she solve the mystery of how hearing people can so consistently
spell words in German so accurately<br>
. You see, as a hearing person I can quickly relate to the concept
that SignWriting is a visually phonetic code. First, I am not blind, so I
can see that it is. Second, I am already comfortable with the notion of
an aurally phonetic writing system. Alas, the Deaf child -- or the
profoundly deaf child, anyway -- may never actually know what a sound is, just
like chldren born totally blind cannot imagine colors. But with
SignWriting, the Deaf child might grasp the idea of a sound based writing code
by analogy.<br>
<font color="#888888"><span style="color:#888888"><br>
<span class="hoenzb">-- James</span></span></font><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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