<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div><span>I have tried to figure out how to sort out left from right hands in the sequence, and the best I can do is to treat ALL signs as right hand dominant and then follow the rotational patterns toward the center. The left hand follows in the same sequence as the right hand, but we need to research it as the SignPuddle treats one hand as having 96 rotations rather than being split in two to 2 hands of 48 orientations each. Sometimes a hand just does weird things in motion so that one needs all 96 rotations (and sometimes the in-between ones). It is a challenge and we are all learning as we go along. </span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;
font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I have not tried to put an English and ASL translation of each sign in LIBRAS into the SignPuddle. </span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I was working through all the examples as actually currently in the LIBRAS SignPuddle when I started, and used only those signs that could attest who put them in and had three different editors in Brazil going through the signs I chose to ensure that they were well formed and attested as there are many "experiments" in both the ASL and LIBRAS SignPuddles that are not fully vetted. </span></div><div style="color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I will try to load up more of my dictionaries as I am able, but I must confess I can't give the stuff away. Valerie has other sources of income, I have very little, and I cannot block out the time to work on the dictionary except very occasionally, without compensation. In Brazil, I was living on a flat sum and was there as a researcher, so I was paid for my work, however tiny. Back in the US I don't have that luxury. </span></div><div></div><div> </div><div>Charles Butler<br>chazzer3332000@yahoo.com<br>240-764-5748<br>Clear writing moves business forward.</div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:
10pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> André L <andre-andre@HOTMAIL.CA><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, August 13, 2014 10:47 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: Ordering Signs in Dictionaries<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv0110801631"><style>#yiv0110801631 #yiv0110801631 --
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#yiv0110801631 </style><div><div dir="ltr">Hello,<br clear="none">sorting by the rotation of the hand may not be effective in LSQ because of directional signs. <br clear="none"> <br clear="none">André Lemyre<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <br clear="none"><div><hr id="yiv0110801631stopSpelling">Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:05:50 -0400<br clear="none">From: duncanjonathan@YAHOO.CA<br clear="none">Subject: Re: Ordering Signs in Dictionaries<br clear="none">To: SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU<br clear="none"><br clear="none">
Hi Charles,<br clear="none">
I watched your talk again today. I realized that what I call
"Sign Sequence" you call "Sign Spelling". I guess it is
"SignSpelling Sequence". So I didn't understand that the first
time. So now after this more attentive listening to your talk, I
see that you definitely are using SignSpelling Sequence for all your
entries and that you are doing them manually the same way Val
suggested in the SignSpelling Guidelines. <br clear="none">
Am I correct in my understanding that which symbols come first
in the sorted list is different from the way SignPuddle is sorting?
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Your sorting would be sorted by the<br clear="none">
1. First by symbol in the sign sequence's basegroup of the first
hand in the SignSpelling Sequence<br clear="none">
2. What figure (See the individual chapters)? <b> I need more
explanation about this one.</b><br clear="none">
3. The for each basegroup sort by fill<br clear="none">
<img alt="" src="cid:1.4129062686@web163405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"><br clear="none">
4. In each fill sorting, sort by rotation <b>( but not
distinguishing between right and left hands. <br clear="none">
I see you number both from 1 to 8 in instead of numbering them all
from 1 to 16)</b><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<img alt="" src="cid:2.4129062686@web163405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
5. Location symbol. comes after hand symbol when comparing.<br clear="none">
From first to last <br clear="none">
No Body - hand to hand, head, body <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
5.1 Location sorting on hand <b>contact order doesn't seem to be
defined yet</b><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
5.2 Head location sorting<br clear="none">
<img alt="" src="cid:3.4129062686@web163405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
5.3 Body body <br clear="none">
Indicate the location of the body, placing the graphic in the left
lane, the middle lane, or <br clear="none">
right lane. - <b>Need this explained I'm not understanding.</b><br clear="none">
<b>Needs to have numbering for which comes first for body location</b><b><br clear="none">
</b><img alt="" src="cid:4.4129062686@web163405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"><br clear="none">
<div class="yiv0110801631ecxmoz-cite-prefix"> <img alt="" src="cid:5.4129062686@web163405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
6 - What is contact? No order, any can come first.<br clear="none">
<img alt="" src="cid:6.4129062686@web163405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
7.7 - Finger bends (ie no order)?No order, any can come first.<br clear="none">
<img alt="" src="cid:7.4129062686@web163405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
8 - Movement? Vertical, then Horizontal, then Arc - up / down, up
/ abaxo + rotation, then up / down bow <br clear="none">
after / below + arc rotation, face bow, face bow + rotation<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<img alt="" src="cid:8.4129062686@web163405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"><br clear="none">
<img alt="" src="cid:9.4129062686@web163405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"><br clear="none">
<img alt="" src="cid:10.4129062686@web163405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"><br clear="none">
<img alt="" src="cid:11.4129062686@web163405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<b>Need to define which come first within the vertical, and which
come first within the horizontal, etc.</b><b> Or just current
default currently in ISWA2010<br clear="none">
</b><b>Need to define movement symbols in other planes, etc.<br clear="none">
</b><b> </b><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
9 Timing. <b>Which comes first?</b><br clear="none">
<img alt="" src="cid:12.4129062686@web163405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
10 Faces and posture.<br clear="none">
<b>Not sure about this one, would like more explanation.</b><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Also you need to output a dictionary that has, <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
hand <br clear="none">
spelling <br clear="none">
sign <br clear="none">
Portuguese <br clear="none">
ASL <br clear="none">
english <br clear="none">
Quote<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Do you currently have any way of keeping all this information in
Sign Puddle?<br clear="none">
SignWriter Studio can do <br clear="none">
spelling<br clear="none">
sign-LIBRAS<br clear="none">
Portuguese<br clear="none">
English<br clear="none">
Source<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I was hoping to add a second SignLanguage to do a dictionary with
two sign languages but I haven't programmed that yet.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I am still working on finalizing the output for the dictionary.
So I am looking for your input whether you use it or not.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Please fill me in where I am lacking and correct me where I am
wrong.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Regards,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Jonathan<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
On 8/12/2014 4:47 PM, Jonathan Duncan wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote>
Hi Charles,<br clear="none">
I enjoyed your symposium <b>“Ordering Signs in Dictionaries” <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv0110801631ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriting.org/symposium/presentation0010.html">http://www.signwriting.org/symposium/presentation0010.htmlgro</a><br clear="none">
</b> I was wondering if Steve and Val had been able to find
you a solution. Val mentioned that she thought that Steve would
have an easy way for you to do your sorting.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I would like to implement a sorting algorithm for SignWriter
Studio as I haven't implemented any yet and I am starting to
produce a Honduran Sign Language dictionary. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I understood how you are doing the ordering comparing hand shapes,
comparing rotations, comparing facings, comparing facial areas,
etc. I like it very much.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
A couple things I wanted to ask.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
For your algorithm to work properly does the sign sequence of a
sign need to be filled out? I am getting the impression that your
sorting could sort dictionaries without the sign sequence, is this
assumption correct? Or would it sort signs according to the
symbols in sign sequence? It doesn't seem to take into account
the order of the symbols in the sign sequence, is this correct?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Also do you have another document comparing the other symbols like
movement symbols, etc? If so could you send it to me? <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Thanks<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-transform: none; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"></span><b></b>
<div class="yiv0110801631ecxmoz-signature">-- <br clear="none">
</div></blockquote></div></div></div><title></title><div><div class="yiv0110801631ecxmoz-signature">
<div> <img alt="" src="cid:13.4129062687@web163405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com">
email: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca" target="_blank" href="mailto:duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca">duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca</a><br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:joyoduncan@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:joyoduncan@gmail.com">joyoduncan@gmail.com</a><br clear="none">
Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171<br clear="none">
Tel USA: (347)875-8442 <br clear="none">
Skype: yojoduncan<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriterstudio.com/">SignWriter
Studio</a><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv0110801631ecxmoz-signature">-- <br clear="none">
</div></div><title></title><div><div class="yiv0110801631ecxmoz-signature">
<div> <img alt="" src="cid:14.4129062687@web163405.mail.gq1.yahoo.com">
email: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca" target="_blank" href="mailto:duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca">duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca</a><br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:joyoduncan@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:joyoduncan@gmail.com">joyoduncan@gmail.com</a><br clear="none">
Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171<br clear="none">
Tel USA: (347)875-8442 <br clear="none">
Skype: yojoduncan<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriterstudio.com/">SignWriter Studio</a><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
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