<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div class="" style=""><span style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class="">2. What figure (See the individual chapters)? </span><b style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class=""> I need more explanation about this one. (Which of the hand shapes in the Group, there are more than 20 under Group 1. That's what I mean by "figure". A Group contains many "figures". Those individual figures are already ordered in the SignPuddle, I am not changing the order of their introduction, I am starting by Group, then Figure, then Orientation, then Rotation.) I was not going to repeat a breakdown by Figure in the introduction, that would take up as much space as the entire SignPuddle, I
was trying to save that for each chapter, which goes solely by GROUP for now. Look at the top of Chapter 1 and you will see all of the Figures in Group 1. The index finger (the first one) then goes through all of the Orientations, etc. in the first column. I used representative samples, not exhaustive. </b></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><b style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class=""><br></b></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;"><b style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class="">This was an Introduction for ONE conference, not exhaustive for all things. I plan to follow the sequence as presented in the SignPuddle for input, as closely as possible, when one is going through any of the groups beyond the hand shapes. </b></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;"><b style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class=""><br></b></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;"><b style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue',
Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class="">I am sorry that I was not more explicit, one has to start somewhere. </b></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><b style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class=""><br></b></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""> </span><br style=""></div><div class="" style="">Charles Butler<br class="" style="">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com<br class="" style="">240-764-5748<br class="" style="">Clear writing moves business
forward.</div><div class="" style=""><br class="" style=""></div> <div style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;" class=""> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=""> <div dir="ltr" class="" style=""> <hr size="1" class="" style=""> <font size="2" face="Arial" class="" style=""> <b class="" style=""><span style="font-weight:bold;" class="">From:</span></b> Jonathan Duncan <duncanjonathan@YAHOO.CA><br class="" style=""> <b class="" style=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">To:</span></b> SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU <br class="" style=""> <b class="" style=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, August 13, 2014 10:05 PM<br class="" style=""> <b class="" style=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Subject:</span></b> Re: Ordering Signs in Dictionaries<br class="" style=""> </font>
</div> <div class="" style=""><br class="" style=""><div id="yiv6838938164" class="" style=""><div class="" style="">
Hi Charles,<br clear="none" class="" style="">
I watched your talk again today. I realized that what I call
"Sign Sequence" you call "Sign Spelling". I guess it is
"SignSpelling Sequence". So I didn't understand that the first
time. So now after this more attentive listening to your talk, I
see that you definitely are using SignSpelling Sequence for all your
entries and that you are doing them manually the same way Val
suggested in the SignSpelling Guidelines. <br clear="none" class="" style="">
Am I correct in my understanding that which symbols come first
in the sorted list is different from the way SignPuddle is sorting?
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
Your sorting would be sorted by the<br clear="none" class="" style="">
1. First by symbol in the sign sequence's basegroup of the first
hand in the SignSpelling Sequence<br clear="none" class="" style="">
2. What figure (See the individual chapters)? <b class="" style=""> I need more
explanation about this one. (Which of the hand shapes in the Group, there are more than 20 under Group 1. That's what I mean by "figure". A Group contains many "figures". Those individual figures are already ordered in the SignPuddle, I am not changing the order of their introduction, I am starting by Group, then Figure, then Orientation, then Rotation.) </b></div><div class="" style=""><b class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style=""></b>
3. The for each basegroup sort by fill<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<img src="cid:1.4129177115@web163403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com" alt="" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">
4. In each fill sorting, sort by rotation <b class="" style="">( but not
distinguishing between right and left hands. <br clear="none" class="" style="">
I see you number both from 1 to 8 in instead of numbering them all
from 1 to 16)</b><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<img src="cid:2.4129177115@web163403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com" alt="" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
5. Location symbol. comes after hand symbol when comparing.<br clear="none" class="" style="">
From first to last <br clear="none" class="" style="">
No Body - hand to hand, head, body <br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
5.1 Location sorting on hand <b class="" style="">contact order doesn't seem to be
defined yet</b><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
5.2 Head location sorting<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<img src="cid:3.4129177115@web163403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com" alt="" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
5.3 Body body <br clear="none" class="" style="">
Indicate the location of the body, placing the graphic in the left
lane, the middle lane, or <br clear="none" class="" style="">
right lane. - <b class="" style="">Need this explained I'm not understanding.</b><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<b class="" style="">Needs to have numbering for which comes first for body location</b><b class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">
</b><img src="cid:4.4129177115@web163403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com" alt="" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<div class="" style=""> <img src="cid:5.4129177115@web163403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com" alt="" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
6 - What is contact? No order, any can come first.<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<img src="cid:6.4129177115@web163403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com" alt="" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
7.7 - Finger bends (ie no order)?No order, any can come first.<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<img src="cid:7.4129177115@web163403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com" alt="" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
8 - Movement? Vertical, then Horizontal, then Arc - up / down, up
/ abaxo + rotation, then up / down bow <br clear="none" class="" style="">
after / below + arc rotation, face bow, face bow + rotation<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<img src="cid:8.4129177115@web163403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com" alt="" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<img src="cid:9.4129177115@web163403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com" alt="" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<img src="cid:10.4129177115@web163403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com" alt="" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<img src="cid:11.4129177115@web163403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com" alt="" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<b class="" style="">Need to define which come first within the vertical, and which
come first within the horizontal, etc.</b><b class="" style=""> Or just current
default currently in ISWA2010<br clear="none" class="" style="">
</b><b class="" style="">Need to define movement symbols in other planes, etc.<br clear="none" class="" style="">
</b><b class="" style=""> </b><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
9 Timing. <b class="" style="">Which comes first?</b><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<img src="cid:12.4129177115@web163403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com" alt="" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
10 Faces and posture.<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<b class="" style="">Not sure about this one, would like more explanation.</b><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
Also you need to output a dictionary that has, <br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
hand <br clear="none" class="" style="">
spelling <br clear="none" class="" style="">
sign <br clear="none" class="" style="">
Portuguese <br clear="none" class="" style="">
ASL <br clear="none" class="" style="">
english <br clear="none" class="" style="">
Quote<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
Do you currently have any way of keeping all this information in
Sign Puddle?<br clear="none" class="" style="">
SignWriter Studio can do <br clear="none" class="" style="">
spelling<br clear="none" class="" style="">
sign-LIBRAS<br clear="none" class="" style="">
Portuguese<br clear="none" class="" style="">
English<br clear="none" class="" style="">
Source<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
I was hoping to add a second SignLanguage to do a dictionary with
two sign languages but I haven't programmed that yet.<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
I am still working on finalizing the output for the dictionary.
So I am looking for your input whether you use it or not.<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
Please fill me in where I am lacking and correct me where I am
wrong.<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
Regards,<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
Jonathan<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
On 8/12/2014 4:47 PM, Jonathan Duncan wrote:<br clear="none" class="" style="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="" style="">
</blockquote></div><div class="" style="">
Hi Charles,<br clear="none" class="" style="">
I enjoyed your symposium <b class="" style="">“Ordering Signs in Dictionaries” <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="" target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriting.org/symposium/presentation0010.html" style="">http://www.signwriting.org/symposium/presentation0010.htmlgro</a><br clear="none" class="" style="">
</b> I was wondering if Steve and Val had been able to find
you a solution. Val mentioned that she thought that Steve would
have an easy way for you to do your sorting.<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
I would like to implement a sorting algorithm for SignWriter
Studio as I haven't implemented any yet and I am starting to
produce a Honduran Sign Language dictionary. <br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
I understood how you are doing the ordering comparing hand shapes,
comparing rotations, comparing facings, comparing facial areas,
etc. I like it very much.<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
A couple things I wanted to ask.<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
For your algorithm to work properly does the sign sequence of a
sign need to be filled out? I am getting the impression that your
sorting could sort dictionaries without the sign sequence, is this
assumption correct? Or would it sort signs according to the
symbols in sign sequence? It doesn't seem to take into account
the order of the symbols in the sign sequence, is this correct?<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
Also do you have another document comparing the other symbols like
movement symbols, etc? If so could you send it to me? <br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
Thanks<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""></span><b class="" style=""></b>
<div class="" style="">-- <br clear="none" class="" style="">
</div></div><title class="" style=""></title><div class="" style=""><div class="" style="">
<div class="" style=""> <img src="cid:13.4129177115@web163403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com" alt="" class="" style="">
<div class="" style="">email: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca" target="_blank" href="mailto:duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca" class="" style="">duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca</a><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:joyoduncan@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:joyoduncan@gmail.com" class="" style="">joyoduncan@gmail.com</a><br clear="none" class="" style="">
Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171<br clear="none" class="" style="">
Tel USA: (347)875-8442 <br clear="none" class="" style="">
Skype: yojoduncan</div><div class="" id="yiv6838938164yqtfd44850" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriterstudio.com/" class="" style="">SignWriter
Studio</a></div><div class="" id="yiv6838938164yqtfd76575" style="">
</div></div><div class="" id="yiv6838938164yqtfd03446" style="">
</div></div><div class="" id="yiv6838938164yqtfd86106" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<div class="" style="">-- <br clear="none" class="" style="">
</div></div></div><div class="" id="yiv6838938164yqtfd43343" style=""><title class="" style=""></title></div><div class="" style=""><div class="" style=""><div class="" id="yiv6838938164yqtfd00597" style="">
</div><div class="" style=""><div class="" id="yiv6838938164yqtfd87360" style=""> <img src="cid:14.4129177115@web163403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com" alt="" class="" style="">
<div class="" style="">email: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca" target="_blank" href="mailto:duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca" class="" style="">duncanjonathan@yahoo.ca</a><br clear="none" class="" style="">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:joyoduncan@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:joyoduncan@gmail.com" class="" style="">joyoduncan@gmail.com</a><br clear="none" class="" style="">
Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171<br clear="none" class="" style="">
Tel USA: (347)875-8442 <br clear="none" class="" style="">
Skype: yojoduncan<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<br clear="none" class="" style="">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriterstudio.com/" class="" style="">SignWriter Studio</a></div></div>
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