<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div><span>Hi Val,</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I have tried to follow the SSS from ISWA-10 but it begins to break down on movements and diacriticals. I am open to any point of discussion. </span></div><div></div><div> </div><div>Charles Butler<br>chazzer3332000@yahoo.com<br>240-764-5748<br>Clear writing moves business forward.</div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Ingvild Roald <iroald@HOTMAIL.COM><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, August 13, 2014 6:18 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: Ordering Signs in Dictionaries<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv8034195249"><div><div>Hi all, </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>My undestanding at the moment is that a dictionary should be ordered by </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>1) the sign spelling sequence</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>2) inside this sequence, the ordering should be done by a system agreed upon by all.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>This would be something like (but much more complex than) a sequence
inside a roman alphabeth where different diacritics should follow in a special odrer. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I think that the spelling sequence, which is based on the the timing inside a sign, is important and natural.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>The order in which the symbols are written, on the other hand, is not important and may differ widely from scribe to scribe. The sign is not written until it is finished, the symbols may be adjusted many times before that. Therefore it is very hard to automate the spelling sequencing at this moment. Maybe in anothe forty years?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Ingvild<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sendt fra min iPad</div><div><br clear="none">Den 14. aug. 2014 kl. 00:03 skrev "Jonathan Duncan" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:duncanjonathan@YAHOO.CA" target="_blank" href="mailto:duncanjonathan@YAHOO.CA">duncanjonathan@YAHOO.CA</a>>:<br clear="none"><br
clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
</div></blockquote></div><div>
Hi Val,<br clear="none">
Thank you for explaining this. I am familiar with the sign
sequence. It is implemented in SignWriter Studio but I is not
currently using it to sort. Also it being part of the the FSW where
practically the first symbol of a sign sequence is compared to first
symbol of another sign sequence, and so one with the second, third
symbol in the sequence until one is before the other in the default
ISWA 2010 order. Once the sign sequence is inputed, they can be
easily sorted with any text sorting algorithm.<br clear="none">
What I got out of Charles talk is that he is proposing a
different order for sorting the symbols than the default ISWA 2010
order. Basically it would be assigned a different sort weight to
each of the symbols in ISWA2010 than those currently being the
default.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Thank you for sharing the link to the SignSpelling Guidelines
2008. It will be useful for comparing both types of sorting.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
If you don't mind my asking what was it the you thought that Steve
had that could help Charles with his sorting order just as he was
finishing his talk?<br clear="none">
Thanks<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Jonathan<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv8034195249moz-cite-prefix">On 8/13/2014 1:52 PM, Valerie Sutton
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">SignWriting List
<div>August 13, 2014</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>OK. There is the world of software, that has many users -
software may need to be flexible
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>There seem to be two needs…</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>1. There is the need for sorting sign-dictionaries and
sign-vocabulary lists</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>2. There is the need for sorting for sign-liguistics
characteristics - for linguistic databases</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>That is why Steve developed the flexible SignSpelling
Column feature in SignPuddle...So writers can choose the
sequence they want to sort with…</div>
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>In SignPuddle, when someone asks for a group of signs and
they are listed…what order are they listed? If the writer of the
signs has entered a SignSpelling Sequence for each sign, those
signs are placed first in the list and are sorted by the
sequence stipulated by the writer…any other signs in the list
that do not have a SignSpelling stipulated, are listed after,
and are in a guessed order …I think that is the way the software
works ;-)</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Here is how I personally see sorting signs for dictionaries…I
started a 2010 book, but never finished it, but here is the 2008
booklet -</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>SignSpelling Guidelines 2008</div>
<div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs6/sw0534-SignSpellingGuidelines-2008.pdf">http://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs6/sw0534-SignSpellingGuidelines-2008.pdf</a></div>
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