<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">SignWriting List<div class="">July 27, 2015</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thank you André, Charles, Adam and everyone, for this interesting discussion.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Just because we are on the internet and using computers, does not mean that SignWriting is dependent on computers.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I am guessing that more people write SignWriting by hand, than by computer. Last year, 2014, some of the presenters told us that they had access to piles of handwritten notes by Deaf people in Italy, and there are certainly people we meet all the time who have handwritten documents in SignWriting…so handwriting is needed because that is easier than learning a computer program.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">One day a researcher came to visit who was working on research on Egyptian Sign Language, and the researcher showed us his notes - and it was in handwritten SignWriting - it was more practical for him to write by hand he told us...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">When a person writes by hand, we really are “writing sign language”. There are different ways to write by hand…there is the slow hand-written block printing, and then there are different versions of handwriting that are faster… And when we write by hand, we are “writing sign language”.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As you know, the SignWriting system began before the advent of the personal computer. We were all writing by hand from 1974-1986, when the first computer program for SignWriting began. We were told that is would be difficult to put such a visual writing system into a computer….</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But that challenge…to place SignWriting in computers…became an inspiration for many brilliant programmers… and it is fascinating to see how the computer software is developing -</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But that does not mean that any writer needs to feel limited by our computer programs - the writing system is still there whether you use computers or not...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regarding the PowerPoints, they are already available to you - I will send the links to the SignWriting List next message...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Val ;-)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">----------------------------</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 27, 2015, at 6:59 AM, André Thibeault <<a href="mailto:atg@VIDEOTRON.CA" class="">atg@VIDEOTRON.CA</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><div class="">Hi Adam,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Val will email me the PowerPoints. I will read a part of Yair Rand's PowerPoint.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best regards,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">André</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class=""><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; text-align: left; border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);" class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">De : </span> Adam Frost <<a href="mailto:icemandeaf@GMAIL.COM" class="">icemandeaf@GMAIL.COM</a>><br class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">Répondre à : </span> "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages" <<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" class="">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>><br class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">Date : </span> Sat, 25 Jul 2015 17:39:17 -0700<br class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">À : </span> <<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" class="">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>><br class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">Objet : </span> Re: Presentation 42<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I can see what you mean, and you are probably somewhat correct as well. I’d just like to mention that I do know that there was a time (maybe still now, I don’t know) that speakers of Japanese and Mandarin (Chinese) used a dictionary to write on computers much like people so with the translate feature in SignPuddle. That does not mean that they couldn’t write in their own language because many did write by hand quite often and with great speed. It just meant that computers didn’t give them the tool to do so with much efficiency.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I feel that is your same frustration right now, and I completely understand because I feel the same at times as well. I can write by hand a lot faster than I can by computer. But there is something that has really gotten me excited. I have been testing the keyboard that Yair Rand explained about during his presentation. I need to get some more practice, and there are things that need to improve with it, but I can see myself becoming quite skilled at touch typing on that keyboard to type in SignWriting. Have you been able to access that presentation? It was the first one of this year. There are documents and PowerPoints on that page.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Adam</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div class="">On Jul 25, 2015, at 1:31 PM, André Thibeault <<a href="mailto:atg@VIDEOTRON.CA" class="">atg@VIDEOTRON.CA</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class="">Hi Charles and everyone,</span></b><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""> </span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""><br class=""></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class="">For example, I live in Québec. Therefore, I use French everyday. But I do know the English language. Even if I do not use the Google Translator Toolkit, I can write many sentences in English. I never translate from French to English using the Google Translator when I write English often.</span></b><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""> </span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""><br class=""></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class="">You live in Maryland and surely use English every day. But you do know Portuguese. If you do not use the Google Translator Toolkit, could you write many sentences in Portuguese? Do you translate very often (not sometimes) from English to Portuguese using the Google Translator?</span></b><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""> </span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""><br class=""></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class="">Now, you also know ASL and LIBRAS. If you do not use a translate feature (SignPuddle), could you write often (not sometimes) and easily many ASL or LIBRAS sentences?</span></b><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""> </span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""><br class=""></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class="">If not, you surely often use a translate feature and you translate from word-glosses to sign texts in order to save time. It would be false to claim that you can write your own sign language because you often write your own word-glosses using a translate feature. </span></b><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""> </span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""><br class=""></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class="">Best regards,</span></b><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""> </span></b></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; page-break-after: avoid; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana;" class=""><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class="">André</span></b><b class=""><span lang="FR" style="font-size: 16pt;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></b></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class=""><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; text-align: left; border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);" class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">De :<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Charles Butler <<a href="mailto:chazzer3332000@YAHOO.COM" class="">chazzer3332000@YAHOO.COM</a>><br class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Répondre à :<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>"SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages" <<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" class="">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>><br class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Date :<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Sat, 25 Jul 2015 00:10:01 +0000<br class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">À :<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" class="">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>><br class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Objet :<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Re: Presentation 42<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: 'bookman old style', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 16px;" class=""><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437782783851_3259" dir="ltr" class="">Andre, iff I am trying to get a readable gloss, I tend to use the translate feature and work on how I would think in Gloss-Dependent ASL. I can write directly what I sign, but for speed, I tend to use the translate feature and then adjust it to get clarity.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437782783851_3200" class=""><span class=""></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437782783851_3215" class=""> </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437782783851_3306" class=""><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437782783851_3305" class="">Charles Butler<br class=""><a href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" class="">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a><br class="">240-764-5748<br class="">Clear writing moves business forward.</div></div><br class=""><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437782783851_3309" style="font-family: 'bookman old style', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 16px;" class=""><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437782783851_3308" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class=""><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437782783851_3307" dir="ltr" class=""><hr id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437782783851_3311" size="1" class=""><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437782783851_3310" face="Arial" size="2" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">From:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Valerie Sutton <<a href="mailto:signwriting@MAC.COM" class="">signwriting@MAC.COM</a>><br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" class="">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, July 24, 2015 8:01 PM<br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: Presentation 42<br class=""></font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1437782783851_3319" class="y_msg_container"><br class="">SignWriting List<br class="">July 24, 2015<br class=""><br class="">André wrote:<br class=""><br class="">On Jul 24, 2015, at 9:23 AM, André Thibeault <<a ymailto="mailto:atg@VIDEOTRON.CA" href="mailto:atg@VIDEOTRON.CA" class="">atg@VIDEOTRON.CA</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class="">> I posted a few messages on the SW list. I am<br class="">> Deafian and I daily use the LSQ (Quebec Sign Language). I am unable to<br class="">> write daily<br class="">> with a mouse (SignPuddle online) many LSQ sentences without using any<br class="">> translation<br class="">> options. However, I am able to write daily with a keyboard (Microsoft<br class="">> Word) many French sentences without using any translation options. I know<br class="">> that Val does not like that. I am sorry if I am too forward about this.<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> Val: Would I read any PowerPoint presentation<br class="">> using notes? If so, how could I use them?<br class=""><br class="">---------------------------<br class=""><br class="">Bonjour André -<br class="">Je suis si heureux de vous entendre à nouveau - il a été trop longtemps ;-)<br class=""><br class="">Je l'ai lu et relu votre paragraphe ci-dessous plusieurs fois, pour essayer de se souvenir et comprendre pourquoi vous pensez que je ne l'aime pas "options de traduction" ... Je me sens mal - sourire - Je ne voulais pas limiter quelqu'un - je utiliser les options de traduction tous les temps! ;-)<br class=""><br class="">Peut-être que vous voulez dire en utilisant la fonction Traduire en SignPuddle en ligne? Il est vrai que je préfère personnellement à écrire une phrase directement dans SignText sans l'aide de la fonctionnalité de traduction, mais vous êtes les bienvenus pour travailler différemment, André - nous travaillons tous différemment et qui est une bonne chose ;-)<br class=""><br class="">Beaucoup de gens sont d'accord avec vous - Et le logiciel de DELEGS est idéal pour cette fin trop - à utiliser de mots gloses pour créer des phrases équivalentes écrites en signes -<br class=""><br class="">Je pense que votre entrée sur le sondage de l'enseignant est le plus précieux ... et je suis en espérant que le Dr AbuShaira va étendre la recherche - je vais partager votre message avec lui ...<br class=""><br class="">Je peux vous donner des liens pour télécharger les présentations PowerPoint ... voulez-vous que? Est-ce que vous donner des notes? Voulez-vous télécharger toutes les présentations PowerPoint?<br class=""><br class="">Val ;-)<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">----------------------------<br class=""><br class="">Hello André -<br class="">I am so glad to hear from you again - it has been too long a time ;-)<br class=""><br class="">I have read and re-read your paragraph below many times, to try to remember and understand why you think I do not like “translation options”…I feel badly - smile - I never meant to limit anyone - I use translation options all the time! ;-)<br class=""><br class="">Maybe you mean using the Translate Feature in SignPuddle Online? It is true that I personally prefer to write a sentence directly in SignText without using the translation feature, but you are welcome to work differently, André - we all work differently and that is a good thing ;-)<br class=""><br class="">Lots of people agree with you - And the DELEGS software program is great for that purpose too - to use word-glosses to create equivalent sentences written in signs -<br class=""><br class="">I think your input on the Teacher’s Survey is most valuable…and I am hoping that Dr. AbuShaira will expand the research - I will share your message with him…<br class=""><br class="">I can give you links to download the PowerPoints...do you want that? Will that give you notes? Do you want to download all the PowerPoints?<br class=""><br class="">Val ;-)<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">> On Jul 24, 2015, at 9:23 AM, André Thibeault <<a ymailto="mailto:atg@VIDEOTRON.CA" href="mailto:atg@VIDEOTRON.CA" class="">atg@VIDEOTRON.CA</a>> wrote:<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> I posted a few messages on the SW list. I am<br class="">>> Deafian and I daily use the LSQ (Quebec Sign Language). I am unable to<br class="">>> write daily<br class="">>> with a mouse (SignPuddle online) many LSQ sentences without using any<br class="">>> translation<br class="">>> options. However, I am able to write daily with a keyboard (Microsoft<br class="">>> Word) many French sentences without using any translation options. I know<br class="">>> that Val does not like that. I am sorry if I am too forward about this.<br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> Val: Would I read any PowerPoint presentation<br class="">>> using notes? If so, how could I use them?<br class=""><br class="">________________________________________________<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br class=""><br class="">Valerie Sutton<br class="">SignWriting List moderator<br class=""><a ymailto="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" class="">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br class=""><br class="">Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<br class=""><a ymailto="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu" href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu" class="">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a><br class=""><br class="">SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<br class=""><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist" target="_blank" class="">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a><br class=""><br class="">Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages<br class=""><a href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1" target="_blank" class="">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div>________________________________________________<div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class="">SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION</div><div class="">Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" class="">sutton@signwriting.org</a></div><div class="">Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu" class="">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a></div><div class="">SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist" class="">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a></div><div class="">Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1" class="">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a></div></span>________________________________________________<div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class="">SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION</div><div class="">Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" class="">sutton@signwriting.org</a></div><div class="">Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu" class="">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a></div><div class="">SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist" class="">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a></div><div class="">Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1" class="">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div>________________________________________________
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Valerie Sutton
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