<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:bookman old style, new york, times, serif;font-size:24px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1517677297078_16976" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1517677297078_17021">Thanks for the screen shot. I do find the discussion most interesting as rotations are always a challenge to discuss. The axis of motion helps one understand. Is it up and down (double) or in and out (single). Thanks. There is often debate as to what one is drawing, the pinky or the thumb, and for me, that is almost an internal thought process of what do I feel is easier to read in writing-both are happening. </span></div><div></div><div> </div><div class="signature" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1517677297078_17858">Charles Butler chazzer3332000@yahoo.com 240-764-5748 Clear writing moves business forward.</div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: bookman old style, new york, times, serif; font-size: 24px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial"> On Friday, February 2, 2018 10:12 AM, Valerie Sutton <signwriting@MAC.COM> wrote:<br></font></div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv3762299229"><div>SignWriting List<div class="yiv3762299229">February 2, 2018</div><div class="yiv3762299229"><br clear="none" class="yiv3762299229"></div><div class="yiv3762299229">Thank you, Rachel and Charles, for your messages. I will answer you shortly, Rachel.</div><div class="yiv3762299229"><br clear="none" class="yiv3762299229"></div><div class="yiv3762299229">Charles, here attached is a screen capture that is a .png format. I hope you can see the graphics this way?:</div><div class="yiv3762299229"><br clear="none" class="yiv3762299229"></div><div class="yiv3762299229"><img class="yiv3762299229" id="yiv3762299229E90B31AB-3ADB-4FA1-85CF-03E1FDE21CD6" src="cid:57K2ktpaf5mVS8PsINh1"><br clear="none" class="yiv3762299229"><div><br clear="none" class="yiv3762299229"></div><div>Val ;-)</div><div><br clear="none" class="yiv3762299229"></div><div>-------------------------------------</div><div><br clear="none" class="yiv3762299229"></div><div><br clear="none" class="yiv3762299229"></div><div><br clear="none" class="yiv3762299229"><blockquote class="yiv3762299229" type="cite"><div class="yiv3762299229yqt3810065461" id="yiv3762299229yqtfd50731"><div class="yiv3762299229">On Feb 2, 2018, at 5:39 AM, Charles Butler <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv3762299229" ymailto="mailto:00000009c7c21417-dmarc-request@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank" href="mailto:00000009c7c21417-dmarc-request@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU">00000009c7c21417-dmarc-request@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>> wrote:</div><br clear="none" class="yiv3762299229Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="yiv3762299229"><div class="yiv3762299229" style="font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div class="yiv3762299229" id="yiv3762299229yui_3_16_0_1_1517578632362_10634"><span class="yiv3762299229" id="yiv3762299229yui_3_16_0_1_1517578632362_10662">I am unable to read any of Ms. Channon's symbols in her email on yahoo. Do they open better in<span class="yiv3762299229Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv3762299229" target="_blank" href="http://gmail.com/">gmail.com</a>. </span></div><div class="yiv3762299229"></div><div class="yiv3762299229"> </div><div class="yiv3762299229signature">Charles Butler<span class="yiv3762299229Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv3762299229" ymailto="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chazzer3332000@yahoo.com">chazzer3332000@yahoo.com</a><span class="yiv3762299229Apple-converted-space"> </span>240-764-5748 Clear writing moves business forward.</div><div class="yiv3762299229qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none" class="yiv3762299229"><br clear="none" class="yiv3762299229"></div><div class="yiv3762299229yahoo_quoted" style="display:block;"><div class="yiv3762299229" style=""><div class="yiv3762299229" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;"><div class="yiv3762299229" dir="ltr"><font class="yiv3762299229" size="2" face="Arial">On Thursday, February 1, 2018 10:13 PM, "<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv3762299229" ymailto="mailto:rchannon1@VERIZON.NET" target="_blank" href="mailto:rchannon1@VERIZON.NET">rchannon1@VERIZON.NET</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv3762299229" ymailto="mailto:rchannon1@VERIZON.NET" target="_blank" href="mailto:rchannon1@VERIZON.NET">rchannon1@VERIZON.NET</a>> wrote:<br clear="none" class="yiv3762299229"></font></div><br clear="none" class="yiv3762299229"><br clear="none" class="yiv3762299229"><div class="yiv3762299229y_msg_container"><div class="yiv3762299229" id="yiv3762299229"><div class="yiv3762299229"><div class="yiv3762299229WordSection1"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Hello Everyone, </div><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">I have a new question โ this time about rotation symbols. In the lessons in signwriting book (maybe I should say bible<span class="yiv3762299229Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="">๐</span>) forearm rotation is discussed starting on page 142. I am just having a hard time understanding how the symbols match with the actions.</div><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </div><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </div><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">The problem is that I donโt understand what the arrows mean in the rotation symbols. I see that for example if the forearm points up, that is the wall plane and it is a double line. But if the arrow shows a movement to the right, what does that mean? Because technically the arm stays in one place and doesnโt move?</div><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">This is the set of signs that I am trying to understand: (S2df)</div><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </div><table class="yiv3762299229MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="945" style="width:709pt;border-collapse:collapse;"><tbody class="yiv3762299229"><tr class="yiv3762299229" style="min-height:73pt;"><td colspan="1" nowrap="" rowspan="1" valign="top" class="yiv3762299229" width="59" style="width:44pt;border-top-width:1pt;border-style:solid none;border-top-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);border-bottom-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);background-color:rgb(221, 235, 247);padding:0in 5.4pt;min-height:73pt;"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;">๑ก</span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;"></span></div></td><td colspan="1" nowrap="" rowspan="1" valign="top" class="yiv3762299229" width="49" style="width:37pt;border-top-width:1pt;border-style:solid none;border-top-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);border-bottom-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);background-color:rgb(221, 235, 247);padding:0in 5.4pt;min-height:73pt;"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;">๑ข</span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;"></span></div></td><td colspan="1" nowrap="" rowspan="1" valign="top" class="yiv3762299229" width="49" style="width:37pt;border-top-width:1pt;border-style:solid none;border-top-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);border-bottom-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);background-color:rgb(221, 235, 247);padding:0in 5.4pt;min-height:73pt;"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;">๑ฃ</span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;"></span></div></td><td colspan="1" nowrap="" rowspan="1" valign="top" class="yiv3762299229" width="52" style="width:39pt;border-top-width:1pt;border-style:solid none;border-top-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);border-bottom-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);background-color:rgb(221, 235, 247);padding:0in 5.4pt;min-height:73pt;"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;">๑ค</span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;"></span></div></td><td colspan="1" nowrap="" rowspan="1" valign="top" class="yiv3762299229" width="49" style="width:37pt;border-top-width:1pt;border-style:solid none;border-top-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);border-bottom-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);background-color:rgb(221, 235, 247);padding:0in 5.4pt;min-height:73pt;"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;">๑ฅ</span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;"></span></div></td><td colspan="1" nowrap="" rowspan="1" valign="top" class="yiv3762299229" width="49" style="width:37pt;border-top-width:1pt;border-style:solid none;border-top-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);border-bottom-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);background-color:rgb(221, 235, 247);padding:0in 5.4pt;min-height:73pt;"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;">๑ฆ</span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;"></span></div></td><td colspan="1" nowrap="" rowspan="1" valign="top" class="yiv3762299229" width="49" style="width:37pt;border-top-width:1pt;border-style:solid none;border-top-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);border-bottom-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);background-color:rgb(221, 235, 247);padding:0in 5.4pt;min-height:73pt;"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;">๑ง</span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;"></span></div></td><td colspan="1" nowrap="" rowspan="1" valign="top" class="yiv3762299229" width="84" style="width:63pt;border-top-width:1pt;border-style:solid none;border-top-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);border-bottom-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);background-color:rgb(221, 235, 247);padding:0in 5.4pt;min-height:73pt;"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;">๑จ</span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;"></span></div></td><td colspan="1" nowrap="" rowspan="1" valign="top" class="yiv3762299229" width="65" style="width:49pt;border-top-width:1pt;border-style:solid none;border-top-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);border-bottom-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);background-color:rgb(221, 235, 247);padding:0in 5.4pt;min-height:73pt;"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;">๑ฉ</span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;"></span></div></td><td colspan="1" nowrap="" rowspan="1" valign="top" class="yiv3762299229" width="60" style="width:45pt;border-top-width:1pt;border-style:solid none;border-top-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);border-bottom-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);background-color:rgb(221, 235, 247);padding:0in 5.4pt;min-height:73pt;"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;">๑ช</span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;"></span></div></td><td colspan="1" nowrap="" rowspan="1" valign="top" class="yiv3762299229" width="56" style="width:42pt;border-top-width:1pt;border-style:solid none;border-top-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);border-bottom-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);background-color:rgb(221, 235, 247);padding:0in 5.4pt;min-height:73pt;"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;">๑ซ</span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;"></span></div></td><td colspan="1" nowrap="" rowspan="1" valign="top" class="yiv3762299229" width="60" style="width:45pt;border-top-width:1pt;border-style:solid none;border-top-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);border-bottom-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);background-color:rgb(221, 235, 247);padding:0in 5.4pt;min-height:73pt;"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;">๑ฌ</span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;"></span></div></td><td colspan="1" nowrap="" rowspan="1" valign="top" class="yiv3762299229" width="92" style="width:69pt;border-top-width:1pt;border-style:solid none;border-top-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);border-bottom-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);background-color:rgb(221, 235, 247);padding:0in 5.4pt;min-height:73pt;"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;">๑ญ</span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;"></span></div></td><td colspan="1" nowrap="" rowspan="1" valign="top" class="yiv3762299229" width="61" style="width:46pt;border-top-width:1pt;border-style:solid none;border-top-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);border-bottom-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);background-color:rgb(221, 235, 247);padding:0in 5.4pt;min-height:73pt;"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;">๑ฎ</span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;"></span></div></td><td colspan="1" nowrap="" rowspan="1" valign="top" class="yiv3762299229" width="56" style="width:42pt;border-top-width:1pt;border-style:solid none;border-top-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);border-bottom-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);background-color:rgb(221, 235, 247);padding:0in 5.4pt;min-height:73pt;"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;">๑ฏ</span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;"></span></div></td><td colspan="1" nowrap="" rowspan="1" valign="top" class="yiv3762299229" width="53" style="width:40pt;border-top-width:1pt;border-style:solid none;border-top-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);border-bottom-width:1pt;border-bottom-color:rgb(155, 194, 230);background-color:rgb(221, 235, 247);padding:0in 5.4pt;min-height:73pt;"><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;">๑ฐ</span><span class="yiv3762299229" style="font-size:16pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD;"></span></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </div><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">If I am describing these symbols can I say something like the following: (in all these symbols I understand we are talking about the right arm and it is in an upright position, pointing to the ceiling)</div><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">In the first symbol, the thumb moves from right to left and the palm first faces the signer and then faces the viewer</div><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">In the second symbol, the thumb moves left and down???</div><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">In the third symbol, the thumb moves in a curve from left to right so that the hand is first palm out to viewer and then palm in to signer?</div><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">The fourth symbol looks almot like the third</div><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">In the fifth symbol, the thumb moves left to right and the palm of the hand is first facing the viewer and ends facing the signer?</div><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </div><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">I am really confusedโฆ..</div><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </div><div class="yiv3762299229MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Rachel</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div class="yiv3762299229yqt3810065461" id="yiv3762299229yqtfd33624"><br clear="none" class="yiv3762299229"></div></div></div><div class="yiv3762299229yqt3810065461" id="yiv3762299229yqtfd94788"><div>________________________________________________
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SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
</div><div>
Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
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________________________________________________
<p>
</p><p>
SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
</p><p>
Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
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