<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">From a purely movement symbol theoretical analysis view, both movements are the same. However, you are right that one has more of a focus on the thumbs rotation while the other has more of a focus on the pinky (or the baby finger as Val calls it). The reason for this is because it really depends on where the center of rotation takes places. With the sign for DOOR, the pinky acts as the hinge of the door. That is the reason the movement symbol that focuses on the thumbs rotation is always used.<div class=""><div class=""><div class="">
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 5, 2018, at 6:16 PM, <<a href="mailto:rchannon1@VERIZON.NET" class="">rchannon1@VERIZON.NET</a>> <<a href="mailto:rchannon1@VERIZON.NET" class="">rchannon1@VERIZON.NET</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii" class=""><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)" class=""><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" class=""><div class="WordSection1"><div class="MsoNormal">Hi Valerie, I’ve started looking through the lessons. Several times, I see the statement: imagine that you have black ink on your thumb or pinky…<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">The problem that I have is that when the forearm rotates the thumb and pinky move in opposite directions. <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">In CLOSE-a-door, I start with my right palm facing left, and end with the palm facing the viewer. <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">The thumb curves OUT to viewer & LEFT. <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">The pinky curves IN to signer & RIGHT. <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">So should I use this symbol, which moves to the right: S2df0c because that looks like the thumb movement:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span id="cid:image006.png@01D39EC6.9747E1A0"><image006.png></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"> OR should I use this symbol S2df08 which looks like what the pinky is doing?<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span id="cid:image007.png@01D39EC6.9747E1A0"><image007.png></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">And of course, the reverse question holds for OPEN-a-door:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">Should I use this symbol, which moves to the right: S2df0c because that looks like the PINKY movement <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span id="cid:image006.png@01D39EC6.9747E1A0"><image006.png></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"> OR should I use this symbol S2df08 which looks like what the THUMB is doing?<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span id="cid:image007.png@01D39EC6.9747E1A0"><image007.png></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">If I can choose whichever one I feel like, then it seems to me that I would not be able to say whether I was opening or closing the door. Am I thinking right?<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">If I am thinking right, then that is fine, and I will just list the rotation symbols as forearm rotation without trying to decide which way the forearm rotates. But if that information is there in the symbol, it would be good to capture it.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">Rachel <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><b class="">From:</b> SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages [<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" class="">mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>] <b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Valerie Sutton<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> Saturday, February 03, 2018 1:05 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> <a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" class="">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [SPAM] Forearm Rotation or axial motion symbols<br class=""><b class="">Importance:</b> Low<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal">SignWriting List<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">February 3, 2018<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">Good Saturday everyone!<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">Yes, this is a fun discussion on Rotation Symbols.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">We are having electricity problems in my home (where I work), and an electrician is on his way to help us. I do not know how long the repairs will take, but it may be all day, so I will not be able to answer or discuss anything until tomorrow, Sunday. I look forward to it!<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">But one point while I can chat... We have some eLessons on our web site, teaching the Rotation Symbols in conjunction with other Curved Movements, and the eLessons use the wonderful illustrations by Steve Parkhurst (thank you again Steve ;-).<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">If you go through each web page, and scroll down and read everything there, I think it might become clearer... Start with this web page:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less012.html" class="">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less012.html</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">(remember to scroll down)<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">and keep reading through this web page:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less015.html" class="">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less015.html</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">and then other web pages:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less026.html" class="">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less026.html</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less040.html" class="">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less040.html</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less041.html" class="">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less041.html</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">and an important one:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less074.html" class="">http://www.signwriting.org/lessons/elessons/less074.html</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">It explains where to place the Rotation Symbols...above or below the hands? See screen capture below. This is related to the Pinkie and Thumb - but that we need another discussion for - There are rules for that too, but they are not posted in eLessons yet and I think they should be...<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal">Have a great day everyone!<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><span id="cid:image001.png@01D39EC4.7409E320"><image001.png></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal">________________________________________________ <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="">SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="">Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator <a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" class="">sutton@signwriting.org</a> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="">Post Messages to the SignWriting List: <a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu" class="">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="">SignWriting List Archives & Home Page <a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist" target="_blank" class="">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="">Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages <a href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1" target="_blank" class="">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div>
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