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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Hi everyone, I have a question about travelling and rotation. There are quite a few signs where the hands or arms move and the forearm twists at the same time. I know there are several sets of symbols to cover many of these situations. However, I just came across a case where I can’t seem to find the right travelling rotation:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.signtyp.uconn.edu/signpuddle/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=9033&sid=12927">http://www.signtyp.uconn.edu/signpuddle/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=9033&sid=12927</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>This is a sign for Venetian blinds and many of the signers put their arms parallel to the floor and then rotate the forearm to show the blinds opening and closing. Some of the signers, like this one, also move the whole arm up. What I think you would need is a movement symbol that looks like this one:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=417 height=223 style='width:4.3472in;height:2.3194in' id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image002.png@01D3E4A9.9B807790"><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>And a rotation curve that looks like this:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=374 height=233 style='width:3.8958in;height:2.4236in' id="Picture_x0020_3" src="cid:image006.png@01D3E4A9.9B807790"><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>But, I don’t see a symbol that combines these two actions. So I have two questions:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'> Is there a symbol that I am missing?<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>If there is no such symbol, can I just write both of the symbols above separately and that would mean the same thing?<o:p></o:p></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks, Rachel<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages <SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Adam Frost<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 04, 2018 10:43 PM<br><b>To:</b> SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Sidewall curves<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I guess you could write HAPPY with the second arrow, but I would actually just write it with a regular up arrow to keep it simple.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>ADMIT has a different movement. It starts closest to the body and then goes up and over like a hill. It is probably called something like “Curve Hits Ceiling”.<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><br>Adam<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On May 4, 2018, at 6:54 PM, <<a href="mailto:rchannon1@VERIZON.NET">rchannon1@VERIZON.NET</a>> <<a href="mailto:rchannon1@VERIZON.NET">rchannon1@VERIZON.NET</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thank you, Adam! You are (of course) right – I mixed up the symbols and the ones I included are the ones that come in toward the signer and back out. I imagine it could be used for the sign HAPPY or perhaps the sign ADMIT? Would you use<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><image005.png><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://signbank.org/SignWriting_Character_Viewer.html#?ui=en&set=key&sym=S2b1"><span style='color:purple'>http://signbank.org/SignWriting_Character_Viewer.html#?ui=en&set=key&sym=S2b1</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Or would this one be better:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><image006.png><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://signbank.org/SignWriting_Character_Viewer.html#?ui=en&set=key&sym=S2ad"><span style='color:purple'>http://signbank.org/SignWriting_Character_Viewer.html#?ui=en&set=key&sym=S2ad</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>My feeling is that the second one is better, because I think the first one means rotation of the forearm, but the second one is a more general movement from the elbow or wrist or a combination. Do you agree?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Rachel<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages <<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU"><span style='color:purple'>SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</span></a>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Adam Frost<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Friday, May 04, 2018 11:15 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU"><span style='color:purple'>SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</span></a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: Sidewall curves<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hello Rachel,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>These movements are on a plane that run vertical with the center of the body. The dot means that part of the movement is closest to your body while the rest is away from the front of your body. So the examples you have are actually the opposite since that part of the curve is farthest from the body.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Now for the question you have about the pairs of arrows where the curve is written from the left verses from the right. Basically, they describe the same movement; however, they are useful in circumstances where the plane that intercepts the body isn’t a perfect 90º angle. That means if the curve comes from the right, then the sum symbol with the right curve would work better than left.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>Adam</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On May 2, 2018, at 6:15 PM, <<a href="mailto:rchannon1@VERIZON.NET"><span style='color:purple'>rchannon1@VERIZON.NET</span></a>> <<a href="mailto:rchannon1@VERIZON.NET"><span style='color:purple'>rchannon1@VERIZON.NET</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hello everyone, I have some questions about the sidewall curves.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=220 style='width:165.0pt;border-collapse:collapse'><tr style='height:35.5pt'><td width=65 nowrap valign=top style='width:49.0pt;border-top:solid #9BC2E6 1.0pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid #9BC2E6 1.0pt;border-right:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:35.5pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD'></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td width=64 valign=top style='width:48.0pt;border-top:solid #9BC2E6 1.0pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid #9BC2E6 1.0pt;border-right:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:35.5pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD'></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td width=41 valign=top style='width:31.0pt;border-top:solid #9BC2E6 1.0pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid #9BC2E6 1.0pt;border-right:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:35.5pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD'></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td><td width=49 valign=top style='width:37.0pt;border-top:solid #9BC2E6 1.0pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid #9BC2E6 1.0pt;border-right:none;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;height:35.5pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:SuttonSignWritingOneD'></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></td></tr></table><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><image003.png><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The full set can be seen at<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://signbank.org/SignWriting_Character_Viewer.html#?ui=en&set=key&sym=S2b1"><span style='color:purple'>http://signbank.org/SignWriting_Character_Viewer.html#?ui=en&set=key&sym=S2b1</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>These are the four right handed curves that are named “Rotation Single hits chest”, or “Curves hit chest”. Stephen Parkhurst explains:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:2.0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>These two arrows represent up-and-down movement that curves toward the body. The basic movement is up and down, so the arrow used is double stemmed.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:2.0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:2.0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>The black dot between the arrow stems means that the hand moves closer to the body during its trajectory and then moves away.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>So for example, if you were describing a big belly, you might use one of these symbols. Or in ASL, versions of SANTACLAUS and THANKSGIVING might use the third or fourth symbols going down from the chin to the chest. The first and second symbols go up and out (toward the viewer) and then curve back toward the signer. The third and fourth symbols go down and out and then curve back to the signer.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>My question is: what is the difference between the first and the second? What is the difference between the third and fourth? Are they just style variations?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>I’d also like to verify my assumption that although these symbols are labelled as “rotations” they don’t necessarily involve a forearm twist, but rather the focus is on the movement of the hand, which could be caused by a forearm twist or could be the whole elbow-shoulder complex moving the hand in space. Do I have that right?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Thanks! Rachel</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>________________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org"><span style='color:purple'>sutton@signwriting.org</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu"><span style='color:purple'>sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>________________________________________________<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org"><span style='color:purple'>sutton@signwriting.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu"><span style='color:purple'>sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>________________________________________________</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps: normal;text-align:start;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps: normal;text-align:start;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org"><span style='color:purple'>sutton@signwriting.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps: normal;text-align:start;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu"><span style='color:purple'>sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps: normal;text-align:start;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps: normal;text-align:start;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>________________________________________________ <o:p></o:p></p><p>SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION <o:p></o:p></p><p>Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator <a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a> <o:p></o:p></p><p>Post Messages to the SignWriting List: <a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a> <o:p></o:p></p><p>SignWriting List Archives & Home Page <a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist" target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a> <o:p></o:p></p><p>Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages <a href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1" target="_blank">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
________________________________________________
<p>
</p><p>
SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
</p><p>
Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
<a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a>
</p><p>
Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
<a href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a>
</p><p>
SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
<a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist" target="_blank">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a>
</p><p>
Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
<a href="http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1" target="_blank">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a>