<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">SignWriting List<br class="">September 5, 2021<br class=""><br class="">Hello everyone on the SignWriting List.<br class=""><br class="">And thank you, Sutthikhun (Ae), for writing Thai Sign Language Fingerspelling. First, if I understand properly, this beautiful chart maps the Consonants, but the vowels are not included in this chart:<br class=""><br class=""><img id="<ii_kt058yqj3>" alt="Sign_ThSL_fingerspelling.png" class="Apple-web-attachment Apple-edge-to-edge-visual-media" style="opacity: 1;" apple-inline="yes" src="cid:ii_kt058yqj3"><br class=""><br class="">So now, writing the vowels is the next task. Do you want to write Thai vowels very accurately like a research project and show every detail? Or do you want to create an easy to read standard that would assume knowledge of the language? These are the questions that come up when you create fingerspelling standardizations. Two-hands on a key on a keyboard for example, can be fit in, but oftentimes the details become unreadable because there is so little space on the key, and when a person is typing fingerspelling, in a string horizontally or vertically, the two-handed vowels can take up more space than the other symbols.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">None of this really matters right now, because you are developing the writing of each vowel, but later we can see if there can be a simplified version of the vowels.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That is why I mentioned the British Sign Language vowels - not because I thought the languages were the same, but simply that we worked hard at getting a simplification later, when we placed British Sign Language on a keyboard.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So regarding the details, you go ahead and write the Thai vowels exactly as the rules of the language dictates, and then show us a chart of Vowels.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If the Thai Fingerspelling rules dictate that the palm must face the reader, then place the left hand facing the reader - a white palm facing.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regarding the writing you have attached below in SignWriting - let me write some ideas next message -</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks Ae! ;-)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Val ;-)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">___________<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">On Sep 1, 2021, at 11:23 AM, Sutthikhun Phaengphongsai <<a href="mailto:suttikunep@gmail.com" class="">suttikunep@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class="">Hello everyone and thank you for your answer, Valerie!<br class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="0702FC51-03B0-43E5-B28D-3426206B31F4" src="cid:ii_kt1qwmkj9" class=""><br class=""><br class="">I have checked the examples you provided using British vowel fingerspelling (VF); however, they appear to be slightly different from Thai VF, as follows:<br class=""><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>• The left palm of the British VF does not need to face the observer, whereas the left palm of the Thai VF does.<br class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="72114A6C-D622-4FDB-87F3-2CCEC2AD73D4" src="cid:ii_kt1sevu511" class=""> <img apple-inline="yes" id="45F260F9-DD8A-4939-BD09-AE84205060F2" src="cid:ii_kt1rw65e10" class=""><br class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>• Touching of fingertips and of finger-bases are differentiated in Thai VF, but there is only fingertip touching in British VF.<br class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="FC5CB829-4433-4877-B086-C674AEB94031" src="cid:ii_kt1rw65e10" class=""> <img apple-inline="yes" id="8E3B9E14-D6A0-4736-91B4-1AC9F24220D0" src="cid:ii_kt1sh38k12" class=""><br class=""></div>As a result, if the left palm is facing the observer, the black left Five Fingers Spread must be selected for expressive viewpoint, which the black color may obscure the writing while the right index finger touches the left palm's middle (I'm not sure whether these following writings are acceptable or not),<br class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="1710760E-6A4C-43C2-A5A6-17B1BDDA87F3" src="cid:ii_kt1svyqg13" class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="B88B8D2C-7E67-477D-BEC6-C9E4DC5290F1" src="cid:ii_kt1swtzb14" class=""><br class=""><br class="">or when the right index finger touches a left finger-base, some left fingers might be obscured, <br class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="72AC8B66-5D8D-4796-B612-DA5A7BCB95A1" src="cid:ii_kt1szefc15" class=""><br class=""><br class="">or when a contact star is written on a finger-base, the star will be obscured.<br class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="D60D7472-3328-4D73-A432-3C291CAE5A3A" src="cid:ii_kt1t1b5o16" class=""><br class="">So I'm curious whether there is any other way to make the Thai VF writing less ambiguous. Could Digit Location symbols be used to make this writing clearer? I don't know how to use them and I'm not sure if they're necessary.<br class=""><br class="">Thanks in advance, <br class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="A123DCC5-9E80-4383-AAB5-41C148D52F75" src="cid:ii_kt1tkyob17" class=""><br class="">Sutthikhun (Ae)<br class=""><br class="">On Wed, 1 Sept 2021 at 05:13, Valerie Sutton <<a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" class="">sutton@signwriting.org</a>> wrote:<br class="">SignWriting List<br class="">August 31, 2021<br class=""><br class="">Hi there,<br class="">The use of the index finger to point to other fingers to show tone or vowels, exists in other sign language as well. One of the well-known examples is in British sign language. They have a two-handed alphabet and they use their index finger to Point to the tips of the fingers of the other hand to show the vowels. To type British fingerspelling we created a shorter way to write it by just using a contact star on the finger being pointed to for the vowels, but others wrote the details. Here are some examples:<br class=""><br class="">British Fingerspelling Font iin SignWriting<br class="">https://www.signwriting.org/catalog/sw214.html<br class=""><br class="">British Fingerspelling Keyboard design for SignWriter DOS<br class="">https://www.signwriting.org/forums/software/fingkeys/fkey044.html<br class=""><br class="">https://www.signwriting.org/uk/GB04.html<br class=""><br class="">So it just depends on how much room you have to write or type two hands versus one.<br class=""><br class="">Val<br class=""><br class="">-----<br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">On Aug 31, 2021, at 1:50 PM, Sutthikhun Phaengphongsai <suttikunep@GMAIL.COM> wrote:<br class=""><br class="">Hello SWList members!<br class=""><br class="">Today I have a question regarding how to write the right index finger touching a part of the left hand's palm and fingers.<br class=""><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>• ThaiSL fingerspelling for vowels, tone marks, and other symbols is shown in the photo and video link below. The right index finger is used to indicate a vowel or a tone mark of a syllable on a part of the left hand's palm or fingers.<br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>• There appear to be symbols used in the SignMaker to write the detailed digit location, but I'm not clear how to use them since I couldn't find a description in the SW Textbook.<br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>• So, which SW symbols should these gestures be written with, and how should they be written?<br class=""></div><img apple-inline="yes" id="8F14C55B-2AB2-465C-AC77-341ABE6E0D93" src="cid:17ba1f00355cb971f161" class=""><br class="">Link: https://youtu.be/6eLfibTBiZQ?t=717 (from 11:57)<br class=""><br class="">Thank you so much in advance!<br class="">I look forward to receiving your responses, <br class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="11A9CAAF-15C2-4C86-BDE4-40611CE6ACE6" src="cid:17ba1f003556b2de07c2" class=""><br class="">Sutthikhun Phaengphongsai<br class="">________________________________________________<br class=""><br class=""></blockquote></blockquote><br class=""></div></div></body></html>________________________________________________
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