<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">There is no hard and fast rule for positioning of the symbols. This has to do a lot with readability. Generally, what you are asking about the position of the hand being in the starting position, however, is the overarching method and starting point for placing the symbols. There are exceptions, such as, position of contact being the ending of the movement rather than the beginning, or as you see with this sign, the overlapping with symbols would make readability difficult. This is why symbols would be moved around.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So in Val’s writing, I would read it as the hand starting at the top of the head (even though the symbol is near the bottom) because of the movement arrowheads being at the top of the circle. I would also assume that the movement is in front of the face rather than to the side because of it overlapping a little and because there are facial expressions on the face that would be covered otherwise. I would also assume that this is the same reason the hand is at the bottom of the face as it would cover the facial expressions if it were in the actual starting position.</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<span><img apple-inline="yes" id="EE26AA9D-FD0A-408B-858E-F7F3C6FADC5F" src="cid:BC7FF2BE-B327-4618-B076-E92B91C176BA@home" class=""></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Adam</span>
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 24, 2021, at 7:56 AM, Sutthikhun Phaengphongsai <<a href="mailto:suttikunep@GMAIL.COM" class="">suttikunep@GMAIL.COM</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Hello Valerie and SWList members!<br class=""><br class="">Thank you for your suggestions about the "Who?" sign and other writings for circular movement in front of the face. DanceWriting's functionality may be confusing to me a little bit. I agree with you that writing from the Expressive Viewpoint is a more appropriate approach to write in sign languages. According to your description, I suppose I might misunderstand at first that the position of a Circular Movement arrow must always overlap the position of the hand, however, it seems that the hand and the arrow don't have to be in the same place as you indicated. So I have a few questions as follows:<br class="">- Is the position of the hand in any SW always the starting point of the movement?<br class="">- Regarding the sign for "Who" in ThaiSL as you provided, if the hand is located under the level of the face, should the arrow be located on the lowest level of the circle as well? I'm just curious as to why your arrow is at the top of the circle.<br class=""><br class="">Your explanation has clarified a lot for me. So thank you again!,<div class=""><span id="cid:ii_kv5cqr0v2"><sign (14).png></span> <br class=""><div class="">Sutthikhun (Ae)<br class=""></div></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 23 Oct 2021 at 05:20, Valerie Sutton <<a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" class="">sutton@signwriting.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class="">SignWriting List<div class="">October 22, 2021</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">First, here is how I would write the sign for WHO in Thai Sign Language, based on the video provided:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=34&sid=202" target="_blank" class="">https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=34&sid=202</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span id="cid:17cb2cb3fa9d477f8951"><Thai sign for WHO 2.png></span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Second, </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thank you, Sutthikhun, for this message on Messenger below. Thanks for letting me answer on the SW List, where others can give us their feedback ;-)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Sutthikhun wrote:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">Good morning Val! I would like to ask you how to use The Head from different viewpoint symbol for sign "Who?" in Thai Sign Language in as follows:<br class="">1. If I use Head Side View, does the Eyebrow have to be shown only on one side or have to be shown on both sides?<br class="">2. Does the Head Movement arrow have to be rotated in the direction of the head?<br class="">3. Does the Circular Movement arrow have to be rotated in the direction of the head?<br class="">4. Does the direction of the Hand have to be rotated along the Head direction as well?</blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><a href="https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=34&sid=200" target="_blank" class="">https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/canvas.php?ui=1&sgn=34&sid=200</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span id="cid:17cb2cb3faad469e1142"><Thai sign for WHO 1.png></span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">ANSWER from Val: This sign can be written from the Expressive Front View as I have written above. I placed my writing in SignPuddle in the Thai Sign Language Dictionary.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Writing anything from the Side View in SignWriting, although possible and occasionally necessary, should be avoided if possible, because writing from the Side View has different rules and circumstances, as your many questions illustrate!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It is also harder for other people to read from the Side View, because it is so rare. DanceWriting is a different. It was designed for all viewpoints, but SignWiting tends to remain Expressive and facing forward, unless we are writing Mime or dialogue or theater.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So I would rather not get into answering your questions about Side View right now - maybe later I can start a new lesson just on writing rare Side Views. Do you have questions on the way I wrote it above? Do you feel you can write it without the Side View now?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Feedback is welcome. It is fine to discuss and argue and enjoy the debate - that is what the SignWriting List is for!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Val ;-)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div>________________________________________________
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