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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/26/2021 11:10 PM, K Cumberbatch
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAM6CZYbRt9P+MOmbPwnyYOLwsS_t-W2HG-GyxX_q5YOYBKPVgg@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi everyone,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for the suggestions and feedback. I'll find out if
what Adam and Sutthikuhn suggested can be used in SooSL.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, I think an add-on is a great approach for new
handshapes. Tim, is it possible for a SignWriting add-on to
work with SooSL or for me to add these handshapes myself?<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>If the handshape you want could be composed from multiple
handshapes already in the ISWA 2010, then you "could" index your
sign with all of these. <br>
That doesn't feel "quite" right as it would suggest that your sign
actually uses multiple handshapes, but anyone searching using any
or all of the individual handshapes would find your sign. <br>
Does that make any sense?<br>
</p>
<p>I'm not sure how an add-on approach would work in SooSL, but if
you looked inside a SooSL installation, you might see how we use
the handshapes.<br>
Inside the program folder there is a sub-folder called
"components", and "handshape" is a sub-folder under this. <br>
The sub-folders under the handshape folder represent the
SymbolGroups of the ISWA 2010
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.signbank.org/iswa/cat_1.html">https://www.signbank.org/iswa/cat_1.html</a>).<br>
The sub-folders under these contain the files associated with each
symbol.<br>
</p>
<p><img src="cid:part1.r4BUXJal.YbT6LZQC@sil.org" alt=""></p>
<p>The files are from resources that I downloaded from here:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.movementwriting.org/symbolbank/index.html#ISWA2010">https://www.movementwriting.org/symbolbank/index.html#ISWA2010</a><br>
The file with '_folder' in its name is only included where that
symbol represents the SymbolGroup.<br>
The files with 'a', 'b', and 'c' were extracted from the animated
gifs for the symbol, which I use for those larger images you see
when you click on the light bulb icon in SooSL.<br>
</p>
<p><img src="cid:part2.LTE4flMj.v2mOww5X@sil.org" alt="" width="334"
height="224"><br>
(I've now combined these into one single file, instead of three
for the next version.)<br>
(There is also a description, in this case "Index Ring Finger",
which is stored elsewhere in the source code.)</p>
<p>So, the short answer to your question, Keren, is "Yes, you could
add new handshapes to SooSL!" <br>
You would need to create files for it as above; name them with an
appropriate symbol code; create a folder for them under an
appropriate SymbolGroup folder and drop them in!</p>
<p>A couple of caveats:<br>
1) If you wanted to share your dictionary with someone else using
another copy of SooSL, you would also need to share the new set of
components with them.<br>
2) New versions of SooSL would overwrite the altered component
folder.<br>
</p>
<p>Maybe if this is an idea that we take forward in development, I
could find a way to keep new handshapes which are not part of
SooSL's core with the dictionary itself? A thought...</p>
<p>I hope that this is some help to you, Keren. I'm sure we will
discuss this more!<br>
</p>
<p>For the SignWriting folks who may be reading this, I use the
names of the symbols, such as "Index Ring Finger", as toolTips in
SooSL. Is there anywhere a list of these names translated into
other language?<br>
I've been meaning to ask that question for a long time; thank you!</p>
<p>Best regards,<br>
Tim<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAM6CZYbRt9P+MOmbPwnyYOLwsS_t-W2HG-GyxX_q5YOYBKPVgg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Adam, the research is detailed and none of the existing
handshapes are close enough. I've used 'close enough' in other
instances.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, the second handshape is the R hand on a hinge. I have
it in my data with both the thumb extended at the side and on
the ring and baby fingers. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Keren.<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 4:08
PM SW-L automatic digest system <<a
href="mailto:LISTSERV@listserv.valenciacollege.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">LISTSERV@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">There
are 4 messages totaling 17206 lines in this issue.<br>
<br>
Topics in this special issue:<br>
<br>
1. Additional Handshapes (4)<br>
<br>
________________________________________________<br>
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SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br>
<br>
Valerie Sutton<br>
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<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:12:24 -0700<br>
From: Valerie Sutton <<a
href="mailto:sutton@SIGNWRITING.ORG" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sutton@SIGNWRITING.ORG</a>><br>
Subject: Re: Additional Handshapes<br>
<br>
SignWriting List<br>
October 26, 2021<br>
<br>
Hello SW List members -<br>
I received this message today (see below).<br>
<br>
Anyone who can help…. can you help us find the closest
handshapes we already have, that could be used to create signs
with these handshapes? If we can find ones that are already in
the ISWA 2010 that are close, then maybe we can teach how to
construct what is needed? I appreciate your help everyone -<br>
<br>
Val ;-)<br>
<br>
-------------<br>
<br>
> On Oct 26, 2021, at 9:58 AM, K Cumberbatch <<a
href="mailto:mehrarbeite@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mehrarbeite@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
Dear Ms Sutton,<br>
<br>
I am using SooSL for my research project and I noticed there
are some handshapes that are not included. I contacted Tim
Grove. He said that the handshapes are from SignWriting and I
can contact SignWriting directly about adding handshapes. I
would like to know if new handshapes will be added in the near
future and if it is possible to add the 2 handshapes in the
attached pictures so that they can be included in SooSL. The
second one which may be difficult to identify is an index
middle cross hinge, thumb side.<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Keren Cumberbatch.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
——————<br>
<br>
> On Oct 26, 2021, at 9:58 AM, K Cumberbatch <<a
href="mailto:mehrarbeite@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mehrarbeite@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Hello Valerie,<br>
> <br>
> Yes, reposting it on the list is fine.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Regards,<br>
> Keren.<br>
<br>
________________________________________________<br>
<br>
<br>
SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br>
<br>
Valerie Sutton<br>
SignWriting List moderator<br>
<a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2021 00:49:42 +0700<br>
From: Sutthikhun Phaengphongsai <<a
href="mailto:suttikunep@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">suttikunep@GMAIL.COM</a>><br>
Subject: Re: Additional Handshapes<br>
<br>
Hi Valerie and SWList members,<br>
<br>
I suppose that the signs for the two handshapes you've
mentioned could be<br>
written as follows:<br>
<br>
[image: sign (2).png]<br>
<br>
[image: sign (14).png]<br>
Sutthikhun<br>
<br>
On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 at 00:13, Valerie Sutton <<a
href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sutton@signwriting.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> SignWriting List<br>
> October 26, 2021<br>
><br>
> Hello SW List members -<br>
> I received this message today (see below).<br>
><br>
> Anyone who can help…. can you help us find the closest
handshapes we<br>
> already have, that could be used to create signs with
these handshapes? If<br>
> we can find ones that are already in the ISWA 2010 that
are close, then<br>
> maybe we can teach how to construct what is needed? I
appreciate your help<br>
> everyone -<br>
><br>
> Val ;-)<br>
><br>
> -------------<br>
><br>
> On Oct 26, 2021, at 9:58 AM, K Cumberbatch <<a
href="mailto:mehrarbeite@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mehrarbeite@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> Dear Ms Sutton,<br>
><br>
> I am using SooSL for my research project and I noticed
there are<br>
> some handshapes that are not included. I contacted Tim
Grove. He said that<br>
> the handshapes are from SignWriting and I can contact
SignWriting directly<br>
> about adding handshapes. I would like to know if new
handshapes will be<br>
> added in the near future and if it is possible to add the
2 handshapes in<br>
> the attached pictures so that they can be included in
SooSL. The second one<br>
> which may be difficult to identify is an index middle
cross hinge, thumb<br>
> side.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
> Keren Cumberbatch.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ——————<br>
><br>
> On Oct 26, 2021, at 9:58 AM, K Cumberbatch <<a
href="mailto:mehrarbeite@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mehrarbeite@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hello Valerie,<br>
><br>
> Yes, reposting it on the list is fine.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
> Keren.<br>
><br>
> ________________________________________________<br>
><br>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br>
><br>
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator <a
href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br>
><br>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: <a
href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu</a><br>
><br>
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<br>
> <a href="http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist</a><br>
><br>
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages<br>
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><br>
<br>
________________________________________________<br>
<br>
<br>
SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br>
<br>
Valerie Sutton<br>
SignWriting List moderator<br>
<a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br>
<br>
Post Messages to the SignWriting List:<br>
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SignWriting List Archives & Home Page<br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:59:33 -0700<br>
From: Adam Frost <<a href="mailto:icemandeaf@GMAIL.COM"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">icemandeaf@GMAIL.COM</a>><br>
Subject: Re: Additional Handshapes<br>
<br>
The first one is actually what I was thinking. This is a
construction of two symbols, correct? BaseSymbol 1 &
BaseSymbol 258?<br>
<br>
+ <br>
<br>
The second one actually has the index and middle fingers
crossing in addition to what your handshape has. I found that
this handshape is the closest, but the thumb is not extended
to the side.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
If you wanted to have the thumb to the side, the handshape
would have to be constructed completely. I am not sure what
would constitute as close enough for this person’s purposes
because it seems they are doing some detailed research. At
least that is my guess.<br>
<br>
<br>
Adam<br>
<br>
> On Oct 26, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Sutthikhun Phaengphongsai
<<a href="mailto:suttikunep@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">suttikunep@GMAIL.COM</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Hi Valerie and SWList members,<br>
> <br>
> I suppose that the signs for the two handshapes you've
mentioned could be written as follows: <br>
> <br>
> <sign (2).png><br>
> <br>
> <sign (14).png><br>
> Sutthikhun<br>
> <br>
> On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 at 00:13, Valerie Sutton <<a
href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sutton@signwriting.org</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sutton@signwriting.org</a>>>
wrote:<br>
> SignWriting List<br>
> October 26, 2021<br>
> <br>
> Hello SW List members -<br>
> I received this message today (see below).<br>
> <br>
> Anyone who can help…. can you help us find the closest
handshapes we already have, that could be used to create signs
with these handshapes? If we can find ones that are already in
the ISWA 2010 that are close, then maybe we can teach how to
construct what is needed? I appreciate your help everyone -<br>
> <br>
> Val ;-)<br>
> <br>
> -------------<br>
> <br>
>> On Oct 26, 2021, at 9:58 AM, K Cumberbatch <<a
href="mailto:mehrarbeite@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mehrarbeite@gmail.com</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:mehrarbeite@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mehrarbeite@gmail.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Dear Ms Sutton,<br>
> <br>
> I am using SooSL for my research project and I noticed
there are some handshapes that are not included. I contacted
Tim Grove. He said that the handshapes are from SignWriting
and I can contact SignWriting directly about adding
handshapes. I would like to know if new handshapes will be
added in the near future and if it is possible to add the 2
handshapes in the attached pictures so that they can be
included in SooSL. The second one which may be difficult to
identify is an index middle cross hinge, thumb side.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Regards,<br>
> Keren Cumberbatch.<br>
> <br>
> <Screenshot 2021-04-10 at 12.29.59
AM.png><Screenshot 2021-10-25 at 8.43.42 PM.png><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> ——————<br>
> <br>
>> On Oct 26, 2021, at 9:58 AM, K Cumberbatch <<a
href="mailto:mehrarbeite@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mehrarbeite@gmail.com</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:mehrarbeite@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mehrarbeite@gmail.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>> Hello Valerie,<br>
>> <br>
>> Yes, reposting it on the list is fine.<br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> Keren.<br>
> ________________________________________________<br>
> <br>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br>
> <br>
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator <a
href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sutton@signwriting.org</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sutton@signwriting.org</a>><br>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: <a
href="mailto:sw-l@listserv.valenciacollege.edu"
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
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> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page <a
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rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1</a>>________________________________________________<br>
> <br>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br>
> <br>
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator <a
href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sutton@signwriting.org</a>
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<br>
________________________________________________<br>
<br>
<br>
SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br>
<br>
Valerie Sutton<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 14:07:42 -0700<br>
From: Valerie Sutton <<a
href="mailto:sutton@SIGNWRITING.ORG" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sutton@SIGNWRITING.ORG</a>><br>
Subject: Re: Additional Handshapes<br>
<br>
SignWriting List<br>
October 28, 2021<br>
<br>
First, I want to welcome a new member to our List, Keren
Cumberbatch. Thank you, Keren, for the questions about
constructing handshapes.<br>
<br>
Second, many thanks to Adam and Sutthikhun (Ae), for your
help. I do so appreciate it.<br>
<br>
Before you joined, Keren, Adam and Sutthikhun (Ae) had already
been discussing your handshapes in question:<br>
<br>
.<br>
<br>
I believe we all agree on the first one:<br>
<br>
It is the thumb inside a fist, with the index finger extended.
It would be two handshapes combined:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
and of course there are different palm facings. This handshape
needs to be constructed because it is not a part of the
official ISWA 2010 symbolset. But all the pieces are there for
you. Do you know how to access and find those shapes in
SignPuddle Online? I do not know how SooSL works with
handshapes.<br>
<br>
The second handshape is hard to see in the photo, but Adam and
Sutthikhun made different suggestions - You can find their
earlier messages in the SW List Archives for today:<br>
<br>
Archive 4<br>
<a href="https://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/</a><br>
<br>
From your description, “ The second one which may be difficult
to identify is an index middle cross hinge, thumb side”, and
looking at the suggestions, it looks like to me that it is an
R hand (crossed fingers) angled forward, like the Letter N in
ASL, but the thumb goes to the side, like this:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
As you can see, this is also a constructed handshape and even
if you want to write it differently than I have posted above,
we do not have it in the ISWA 2010 either - so both handshapes
have to be constructed.<br>
<br>
So what to do about needing more handshapes in the ISWA? It
would be so much chaos for the software developers who have
already built their software on the current symbolset to
change the current symbolset now - the best thing we could
try, is for brave software developers to develop an “add-on”
program that could somehow be accessed on the side, while
still keeping the current software in tact.<br>
<br>
How do other people feel about this? Rubens Almeida and others
have also requested more handshapes. Is there anyone who can
help this issue?<br>
<br>
Val ;-)<br>
<br>
<br>
-----------------<br>
<br>
> On Oct 25, 2021, at 6:46 PM, K Cumberbatch <<a
href="mailto:mehrarbeite@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mehrarbeite@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Dear Ms Sutton,<br>
> <br>
> I am using SooSL for my research project and I noticed
there are some handshapes that are not included. I contacted
Tim Grove. He said that the handshapes are from SignWriting
and I can contact SignWriting directly about adding
handshapes. I would like to know if new handshapes will be
added in the near future and if it is possible to add the 2
handshapes in the attached pictures so that they can be
included in SooSL. The second one which may be difficult to
identify is an index middle cross hinge, thumb side.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Regards,<br>
> Keren Cumberbatch.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________________________<br>
<br>
<br>
SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION<br>
<br>
Valerie Sutton<br>
SignWriting List moderator<br>
<a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sutton@signwriting.org</a><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of SW-L Digest - 25 Oct 2021 to 26 Oct 2021 - Special
issue (#2021-136)<br>
***************************************************************************<br>
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<p>
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SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
</p><p>
Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
<a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a>
</p><p>
Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
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