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<p>Hi all, and thanks UTA for you input too.</p>
<p>There is a symbol for when a hand does not move, it's ~ . <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I've noticed that for people who start learning sign-writing, one
of theirs and it was mine too, to distinguish which hand is
which. The way that works best for me is analyzing the arrow head
that come from or to a hand so to tell if it's the right or left
hand. If there are no arrow heads available, then the right most
symbol is the right hand and left most symbol is the left hand,
except in the case of the arms crossed over the big X then you
know that the left hand is on the right and the right hand is on
the left. So I believe that's why <br>
</p>
<p>There has been an effort while writing to write as little as
possible and for the writing to still be ineligible. So I believe
that's why the hand symbols are right and left hand symbol or
even any of the hand symbols actually right or left hand, only
that some usually are only used for right or left, but not
always. Which I believe is part of the problem of sorting. I
created an algorithm that analyzing the arrows and hand positions
categorized them as right or left hand and first set of right-left
hands and second-set of right-left hands to be able to put the
symbols in an order so that the signs could be sorted. It worked
for most signs, but some have to have the symbols ordered
manually. So I never finished ordering my dictionaries as for all
the effort it was taking was keeping me from publishing it. And I
decided to first publish with oral language order, then if anybody
wanted it sign order, I would finish it. No one ever requested it
so, that's were that has stayed.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Steve,</p>
<p> What I understand from your examples on the web
page(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-slevinski-formal-signwriting-09.html#name-proposed-null-symbol">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-slevinski-formal-signwriting-09.html#name-proposed-null-symbol</a>)
is that the null Symbol would be per syllable or set of hand
grouping in the case that there is only one hand and another
non-hand symbol like contact.</p>
<p> How are you determining which of the two hands comes first in
the symbol list if there are two? <br>
</p>
<p>If we have a sign with two hands and one contact symbol and
removed one of the two, would the null symbol still come after the
remaining hand symbol in both cases?</p>
<p>I think I would've called it the empty symbol as opposed to the
null symbol. Because it's a value to fill in, not a value that we
don't know.<br>
</p>
<p>Jonathan<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/30/2022 11:30 AM, Uta Meißner
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADsT5uXc=oFZcwJdrrvusmCscZ+HzXe47=f+cVgO7jceyddRNQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Hi all,
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div dir="auto">And why s is not a symbol for ressesive hand,
which is one's rests (don't move). </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I need this. and this Symbol should be a
little point. this should remember on a nail. 🙂 Very
simple. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">What do you think? </div>
<div dir="auto">and you, Adam, the inventor of null-Symbol 🙂 </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Best regards </div>
<div dir="auto">Uta</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Uta Meißner <<a
href="mailto:uta.hielscher@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">uta.hielscher@gmail.com</a>>
schrieb am So., 30. Jan. 2022, 18:12:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Hi Stephen, </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">A question of understanding:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">A maximum of 2 hand shapes may be entered
per character, so that there is one dominant and one
rezessiv hand. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">When writing a sign script, I have to make
sure that the dominant hand is entered first, then the
recessive hand. Only by the order alone hands are
recognized as either dominant or recessive hand. Correct? </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Sometimes you have to enter end-hand shape,
because otherwise it is not clear what the end-hand shape
looks like. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I.e. when writing, you always have to
consciously enter the zero symbol if it is a one-hand
gesture. The null symbol is not entered automatically,
right? </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The fact that there is a zero symbol is
definitely great for the sign search. </div>
<div dir="auto">🙂 </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">But I need your creative minds on how to
incorporate the zero symbol into the sign search.
Normally, a selected symbol is always entered in the
search field. Only that there is no picture for it, you
can not click on it and see the feedback in the search
field. 🙈 </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Sign2mint.de has a toggle to choose between
Iswa and drawing. For drawing, it is easy, a new image can
be created with just one hand. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Best regards! </div>
<div dir="auto">Uta</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Stephen Slevinski <<a
href="mailto:slevin@signpuddle.net" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">slevin@signpuddle.net</a>>
schrieb am So., 30. Jan. 2022, 17:26:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi
SignWriting List,<br>
<br>
Today I posted a new revision of the internet draft: <br>
draft-slevinski-formal-signwriting.<br>
It includes two changes.<br>
<br>
First, I've removed part of the styling string for
individual symbol <br>
zoom and offset.<br>
When I first added this feature, I thought it was a
good idea.<br>
However, this feature creates problems and complicates
simple processing.<br>
Last month I finally realized why it was such a
problem.<br>
I couldn't find any workable solutions, so I decided
to remove it.<br>
I will be updating the available software packages in
the near future.<br>
One step back, two steps forward.<br>
<br>
Second, I've added a proposal for a new "null symbol".<br>
This was inspired by discussions with Adam Frost and
his ideas about <br>
sorting.<br>
Talking with Val, this is a long standing issue.<br>
I'm still thinking through the issue, but I think this
is a good fix.<br>
You can read more about it here:<br>
<a
href="https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-slevinski-formal-signwriting-09.html#name-proposed-null-symbol"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-slevinski-formal-signwriting-09.html#name-proposed-null-symbol</a><br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
-Steve<br>
<br>
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