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<p>Hello List,</p>
<p>Yes this writing the arm rotation is implied by beginning and
ending symbols, but not directly annotated in the sign. The arm
in the start position the back of the arm is up, and in the ending
position the bottom of the arm is up. From my point of view,
there was an arm rotation but it is not needed for everyday
writing as the hand symbols force you to do it anyways.</p>
<p>Jonathan<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/6/2022 7:28 AM, Carlos Cristian
Libras wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAC7Lbd=yB=Sfd5A+oPaeaVW=y9NEizugDWUeddph-gfsG8y6dg@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hello List,<br>
The moment I watched the video I understood that sign language
readers can easily see the written form and complete the sign.
Like a spelling agreement. As much as it is not 100%
represented in writing. As many signs in Brazil are made like
this (we write in a way that Brazilian readers can read easily
but that a foreigner may have another interpretation of the
movement).<br>
<br>
After thinking about it, I reflected that if I were to
describe the movement exactly I would separate the signal in 2
beats, writing the beginning of the movement and the end. But
before I answered that, I saw the rest of the discussion and
realized that Valerie Sutton had already shown exactly the
format I thought:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<img src="cid:part1.kY6D9ZOG.iIkvRzv3@gmail.com" alt="image.png"
class="" width="150" height="142"><br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I don't know of any current symbols that would simplify
this. But I'm looking forward to seeing Adam's response.
Anyway, I believe that the two solutions above already solve
the problem, I see no reason to worry.<br>
I advise you to write long texts that use this sign, to see
how it will actually be in practice. Because it is very
different to write a sign for a dictionary, putting all the
details than writing a personal note text in which many
details are obsolete, because what matters most is the
practicality and usefulness of writing.<br>
<br>
This is just an opinion.<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 3:27 AM
Adam Frost <<a href="mailto:icemandeaf@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">icemandeaf@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">I think the discussion
came about because there is a desire to have a movement
symbol that has arm rotation and arm traveling. Now that I
think of it, there are some symbols that do just that. I’ll
have to take a look into that tomorrow morning. :-)
<div><br>
<div>
<span><img
id="gmail-m_486863985837522633326647A6D-1003-4639-8996-691114511125"
src="cid:part2.bi4NU2XO.3b9oZm2t@gmail.com" class=""></span><br
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Adam</span>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Feb 5, 2022, at 9:42 PM, Valerie Sutton <<a
href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sutton@signwriting.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>SignWriting list<br>
February 5, 2022<br>
<br>
And to answer your question, when we really are
writing rotation symbols (movements that do not
travel but just change palm facing), we do not
have a diagonal plane version of the rotation
symbols. There are only two planes to choose from
for Rotation Symbols. The forearm is either
parallel to the floor or parallel to the Wall - I
have never seen yet a sign that is misunderstood
because a diagonal forearm would change the
meaning of the sign.<br>
<br>
In this case this sign means “homogeneous" in
English (in German “homogen”) and homogeneous in
English means like a family or group that blends
well together. The movements look a little like
the sign for FAMILY in ASL, and although I know
the meanings may be different, I think the curved
traveling movement fits with the meaning of the
sign, at least that is the way it feels to me.<br>
<br>
There are always questions with Rotation Symbols
and how to write them so feel free to keep asking
questions - <br>
<br>
Thanks so much for sharing.<br>
<br>
Val ;-)<br>
<br>
--------------<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Feb 5, 2022, at 9:27
PM, Valerie Sutton <<a
href="mailto:sutton@SIGNWRITING.ORG"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sutton@SIGNWRITING.ORG</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
SignWriting List<br>
February 5, 2022<br>
<br>
Hello SignWriting List, Uta and Adam,<br>
<br>
Regarding this video:<br>
<a
href="https://sign2mint.de/entry/homogen/5750242766511595:730"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://sign2mint.de/entry/homogen/5750242766511595:730</a><br>
<br>
I agree with you, Adam, that this is a general
arm movement because the arm movement TRAVELS.
The hands travel from shoulder level to “in
front of the chest and lower” in the second
position. I would write it this way:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite"><br>
<br>
<br>
Movements that travel are curves that truly move
the hands from one space to another.<br>
<br>
Rotation symbols are movements that do NOT
travel. The arm stays in one place while the arm
twists from one palm facing to another, while
staying in place.<br>
<br>
So if I were reading the SignWriting with the
rotation symbol in this diagram, without seeing
the video, I would think that the plam facing
changes at shoulder level. I would not know that
it traveled down lower, since it is a Rotation
Symbol (which means no traveling).<br>
<br>
Sometimes small rotation symbols are placed on
top of traveling arrows - they are combined,
because the writer doesn’t want to write the
second position but I prefer to write the second
position - at least for those who do not know
the sign.<br>
<br>
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