<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I wouldn’t be able to make a detailed explanation today, so I will give a short one and then expand on it tomorrow.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">At first glance, it would seem that these two are the same. However, there is a difference in their meaning.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The separated arrows means that the hands are far enough apart that they don’t overlap in their respective paths.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">With the general movement arrow, it means that the hands move together very closely, almost to the point that they are touching as they move along the same path.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Now, having said that, I know that there are some writers who have chosen to use the general movement arrows to also mean that both hands move as a unit regardless of how far apart they are. My understanding is that this is even becoming standard in Brazil. To be honest, that is ok as long as everyone see it the same way and that it doesn’t result in confusion of other signs.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I would personally write the first spelling because it is more common for the hands to be farther apart than closer. This is actually how many writers in the US have chosen to write because there are cases when signs are confused if the general arrow is used regardless of how far the hands are apart.<br class=""><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><img apple-inline="yes" id="F40AEC7F-08D5-4C01-9654-E0BBBD288FDD" src="cid:473DD1A5-1788-4D15-B0A5-09E2C2BDD01E" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Adam</span>
</div>
<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 17, 2022, at 11:39 AM, Ms. AnnaGrace <<a href="mailto:msannagrace20@GMAIL.COM" class="">msannagrace20@GMAIL.COM</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Hi André,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Both spellings mean "MOVE" in ASL to me. They mean the same thing. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As for choosing which spelling to use, I would use the second one, because it is more "economical". </div><div class="">However, as for the usage of (B), it depends on how much the writer knows SignWriting. </div><div class="">I would expect the more knowledgeable and fluent signwriters would come up with that arrowhead in (B);</div><div class="">I can imagine the beginner signwriters would more likely use (A).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cheers,</div><div class="">AnnaGrace</div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 2:07 PM André Thibeault <<a href="mailto:atg@videotron.ca" class="">atg@videotron.ca</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="" class=""><div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class="">Hi Val, Adam and everyone,</div><div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class="">Adam and Val: Thank you for your answer.</div><div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class="">Adam signwrote: <span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px" class=""><span id="cid:17f092e92b9fa4590957"><A985437A-8542-4AEF-80F7-4F5F7B2FA760.png></span></span></div><div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px" class=""> A) MOVE (ASL)</span></div><div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px" class="">I signwrite: </span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px" class=""><span id="cid:17f092e92b955dcdc5b8"><D9A076AA-73F1-476A-B4CA-E189C0220E90.png></span></span></div><div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px" class=""> B) MOVE (ASL)</span></div><div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><font face="Helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size:12px" class="">Is B) MOVE the correct spelling? If so, A) MOVE is more commonly used. B) MOVE is more rarely used. I like an ASL sign for B) MOVE because B) MOVE is more economical than A) MOVE.</span></font></div><div class=""><font face="Helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size:12px" class=""><br class=""></span></font></div><div class=""><font face="Helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size:12px" class="">Best regards,</span></font></div><div class=""><font face="Helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size:12px" class=""><br class=""></span></font></div><div class=""><font face="Helvetica" class=""><span style="font-size:12px" class="">André</span></font></div><div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class=""><br class=""></div><span id="gmail-m_-5292341021659286422OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; text-align: left; border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);" class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">De : </span> Adam Frost <<a href="mailto:icemandeaf@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank" class="">icemandeaf@GMAIL.COM</a>><br class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">Répondre à : </span> "SignWriting List: Read and Write Sign Languages" <<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank" class="">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>><br class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">Date : </span> Thu, 17 Feb 2022 08:55:01 -0800<br class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">À : </span> <<a href="mailto:SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU" target="_blank" class="">SW-L@LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU</a>><br class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">Objet : </span> Re: [SPAM] Re: Spelling of Sightseeing<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class="">That’s part of the reason I asked. ;-) I have several people off the list that I have been asking as well. Even some who aren’t familiar or skilled with SignWriting, just to see an alternative view in case there might be a more simple option.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So I have settled down with this as the main option:</div><div class=""><span id="cid:17f092e92b8ad7fd521"><Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.33.20 AM.png></span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It actually takes the exact spelling of 22 on both hands. It seems that most people that I have talked with don’t see the paths overlapping that often. They can, but not usually.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If the sign is made larger and/or with more repeated wrist flex, it seems to be possible that there is an overlapping path. I had tired to write it like this:</div><div class=""><span id="cid:17f092e92b98f0a8d462"><Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.40.39 AM.png></span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But it seems that the above spelling isn’t very readable to many people of various SignWriting skill levels. So I tried this option below, and it seems it is more readily understandable.</div><div class=""><span id="cid:17f092e92b95e6ac8563"><Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.37.20 AM.png></span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So, if I were to follow the same principle and write the straight general movement rather than the curved, I found this is actually more readable than the combined arrows.</div><div class=""><span id="cid:17f092e92b9d6bcd00f4"><Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.43.55 AM.png></span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But now for the curve ball! I have asked several people (off the list) what movement they see with that sign. The ones that don’t know SignWriting at all generally said they see a straight down movement and then a curve, which may or may not be repeated. To follow that interpretation of the movement, I wrote this option below. I know that it doesn’t have a wrist flex, but even when I asked specifically if the sign bends at the wrist, I was mostly told it doesn’t matter if it does or not.</div><div class=""><span id="cid:17f092e92b9b91fb7cc5"><Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.52.34 AM.png></span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So it seems that the two main options I have found are <span id="cid:17f092e92b8ad7fd521"><Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.33.20 AM.png></span> and <span id="cid:17f092e92b9b91fb7cc5"><Screen Shot 2022-02-17 at 8.52.34 AM.png></span>. I would personally go with the first option, but I do see the thinking behind the second one.</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><span class=""><span id="cid:17f092e92b94dbf12036"><namesign.png></span></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline;" class="">Adam</span></div><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 17, 2022, at 6:56 AM, Uta Meißner <<a href="mailto:uta.hielscher@GMAIL.COM" target="_blank" class="">uta.hielscher@GMAIL.COM</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="">Same here. :) <div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">And I think that's good, because the more often we are of the same opinion, the higher the probability of success with the sign search. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">The exchange is great here! </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Uta<br class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Carlos Cristian Libras <<a href="mailto:carloscristianlibras@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">carloscristianlibras@gmail.com</a>> schrieb am Do., 17. Feb. 2022, 00:56:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class="">I Like First entries for "signtesseing". I look clean.</div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 6:19 PM AnnaGrace Greenfield <<a href="mailto:msannagrace20@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">msannagrace20@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class="">Hi Adam,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I like the two recent entries for "sightseeing." Thumbs up!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">~ AnnaGrace</div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:10 PM Adam Frost <<a href="mailto:icemandeaf@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">icemandeaf@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="">I agree that the first writing is probably the most accurate, but it just seems to be bigger than the other writings. I just added a couple of other spellings, both with the wrist movement written into them.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=3535,11549,11550,11551,11552&sTrm=sightsee&type=any&sTxt=&sSrc=&" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=3535,11549,11550,11551,11552&sTrm=sightsee&type=any&sTxt=&sSrc=&</a></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><span class=""><span id="gmail-m_-5292341021659286422cid:17f0466fb064dbf12031" class=""><namesign.png></span></span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">Adam</span></div><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 16, 2022, at 10:19 AM, AnnaGrace Greenfield <<a href="mailto:msannagrace20@GMAIL.COM" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">msannagrace20@GMAIL.COM</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Hi Adam,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I looked in the links you provided.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I like the first entry for "sightseeing." The second one is okay, and I find it acceptable. The third one is understandable, but I like the second one better. :-) </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If all three remain in the SignPuddle, then these three serve as an example of sign variations and of how they can be written in slightly different ways.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Below is a video link of the sign "sightseeing" being used. It's in <b class="">timestamp 01:15</b>. I see the wrist action here. I use the wrist action myself. That's why I like the first entry in the SignPuddle. If other signers don't use the wrist flick, then entries two and three in the SignPuddle apply. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Link: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjazaX9YDS0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjazaX9YDS0</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Well, that's my feedback. Hope this helps!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards,</div><div class="">AnnaGrace</div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 12:19 PM Adam Frost <<a href="mailto:icemandeaf@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">icemandeaf@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="">This has been one sign that I have been trying to see what is the best way to write. It has the similar movement as 22 from earlier discussion except that it uses both hands.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Here is a video of it for those who aren’t sure of the sign.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://www.signingsavvy.com/sign/SIGHTSEE/12560/1" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.signingsavvy.com/sign/SIGHTSEE/12560/1</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Here are a few different spellings that I have done of this sign in SignPuddle. I am not sure how I feel about them being the best spelling.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=3535,11549,11550&sTrm=sightsee&type=any&sTxt=&sSrc=&" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.signbank.org/signpuddle2.0/searchword.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=3535,11549,11550&sTrm=sightsee&type=any&sTxt=&sSrc=&</a></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><span class=""><span id="gmail-m_-5292341021659286422m_4440294751360904486gmail-m_3027991645005947598gmail-m_-2970446406148929154cid:17f03b9eb304dbf12031" class=""><namesign.png></span></span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">Adam</span></div><br class=""></div></div>________________________________________________
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SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
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Valerie Sutton
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SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
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Valerie Sutton
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Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
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<p>
</p><p>
SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
</p><p>
Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
<a href="mailto:sutton@signwriting.org">sutton@signwriting.org</a>
</p><p>
Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
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