
<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Mattis,<div class="">I did not mean to imply there were no differences. Of course the teams used somewhat different data, in terms of the number of languages and which particular languages and even the forms used from the same languages, and in the case of the Sagart and Zhang teams they implemented the BEAST program differently, so we would expect some differences, but I was just commenting that having several independent teams using different methods and data lead to the same conclusion about the ST homeland and about the time of dispersal (roughly) is something to celebrate.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">By the way, for those who are not fans of the Bayesian phylogeny approach, here is an article <i class="">Nature</i> asked me to write about the Zhang et al. article explaining what it is about and its relevance:</div><div class=""><a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01214-6" class="">https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01214-6</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Randy<br class=""><div class="">

<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">-----</span></span><div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">Randy J. LaPolla, PhD FAHA</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class=""> </span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Microsoft JhengHei', sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">（羅</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">仁地</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Microsoft JhengHei', sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">）</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-color: white;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">Professor of Linguistics, with courtesy appointment in Chinese, School of Humanities </span><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">Nanyang Technological University</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; background-color: white;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">HSS-03-45, 48 Nanyang Avenue| Singapore 639818</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class=""><a href="http://randylapolla.net/" style="color: purple;" class="">http://randylapolla.net/</a></span><span style="font-size: 9pt; background-color: white;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">Most recent books:</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; background-color: white;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">The Sino-Tibetan Languages, 2nd Edition (</span></i><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">2017)</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; background-color: white;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class=""><a href="https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324" style="color: purple;" class="">https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324</a></span><span style="font-size: 9pt; background-color: white;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">Sino-Tibetan Linguistics </span></i><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">(2018)</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; background-color: white;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class=""><a href="https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780415577397" style="color: purple;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780415577397</span></a></span></div></div></span></span></div></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 13 May 2019, at 10:13 PM, Johann-Mattis List <<a href="mailto:mattis.list@lingulist.de" class="">mattis.list@lingulist.de</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="">Dear Randy and all,<br class=""><br class="">As somebody involved in one of the studies, but with not very much of a<br class="">good knowledge of ST history, so I would not dare to call myself an<br class="">expert in this field, I would like to mention that in addition to the<br class="">similarities in the conclusions, I find the particular dissimilarities<br class="">even more interesting.<br class=""><br class="">What I hope for the future, with these different studies, is a vivid<br class="">discussion among scholars of Sino-Tibetan/Trans-Himalayan, involving all<br class="">kinds of opinions. I'd like to hear in talks and see in papers where<br class="">colleagues find confirmation for findings, where they disagree, and<br class="">where they could improve, be it on the data that we produced in our<br class="">group, on additional evidence, or on the evidence we could draw from new<br class="">high-quality reconstructions of subgroups.<br class=""><br class="">To make our own process of data coding more transparent, I started a<br class="">blogpost series that will -- on a monthly basis -- introduce certain<br class="">aspects of how we started by collecting and curating our Sino-Tibetan<br class="">database of Lexical Cognates: <a href="https://calc.hypotheses.org/1882" class="">https://calc.hypotheses.org/1882</a><br class=""><br class="">All the best,<br class=""><br class="">Mattis<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">On 13/05/2019 14.04, Randy J. LaPolla wrote:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">Hi All,<br class="">I thought I sent the message pasted below this one to the list back on<br class="">May 1, but I sent it to the wrong address. <br class="">Btw, now that we’ve seen the article sent by Lai Yunfan, we have a nice<br class="">case of reproducibility, a keystone of science, as that article used<br class="">similar data and the same software package as the Zang et al. article I<br class="">am sending now, and also some of the same concepts and data that David<br class="">Bradley used in the article attached. Plus there was my 2001 article<br class="">(here<br class=""><<a href="http://www.randylapolla.info/Papers/LaPolla_2001_The_Role_of_Migration_and_Language_Contact_in_the_Development_of_the_Sino-Tibetan_Language_Family.pdf" class="">http://www.randylapolla.info/Papers/LaPolla_2001_The_Role_of_Migration_and_Language_Contact_in_the_Development_of_the_Sino-Tibetan_Language_Family.pdf</a>>),<br class="">which relied largely on historical sources. The dovetailing of all of<br class="">this work makes the case for the origin of the Sino-Tibetan family being<br class="">in the middle reaches of the Yellow River and the association with Yang<br class="">Shao culture quite strong.<br class=""><br class="">Randy<br class=""><br class="">Begin forwarded message:<br class=""><br class="">*From: *"Randy J. LaPolla" <<a href="mailto:randy.lapolla@gmail.com" class="">randy.lapolla@gmail.com</a><br class=""><<a href="mailto:randy.lapolla@gmail.com" class="">mailto:randy.lapolla@gmail.com</a>>><br class="">*Subject: **Re: two important articles*<br class="">*Date: *1 May 2019 at 3:57:09 PM GMT+8<br class="">*To: *<a href="mailto:tibeto-burman-linguistics-owner@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">tibeto-burman-linguistics-owner@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class=""><<a href="mailto:tibeto-burman-linguistics-owner@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">mailto:tibeto-burman-linguistics-owner@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br class=""><br class="">Hi All,<br class="">For those interested in the question of the Sino-Tibetan homeland and<br class="">the development of the family, here are two very useful recent articles,<br class="">one as attachment, one as a link:<br class=""><a href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/i74fimoxns2sicm/Zang%20et%20al%202019%20Phylogenetic%20evidence%20for%20Sino-Tibetan%20origin%20in%20northern%20China%20in%20the%20Late%20Neolithic%20%20Nature.pdf.pdf?dl=0" class="">https://www.dropbox.com/s/i74fimoxns2sicm/Zang%20et%20al%202019%20Phylogenetic%20evidence%20for%20Sino-Tibetan%20origin%20in%20northern%20China%20in%20the%20Late%20Neolithic%20%20Nature.pdf.pdf?dl=0</a><br class=""><https://www.dropbox.com/s/i74fimoxns2sicm/Zang et al 2019 Phylogenetic<br class="">evidence for Sino-Tibetan origin in northern China in the Late Neolithic<br class="">Nature.pdf.pdf?dl=0><br class=""><br class="">Randy<br class="">-----<br class="">*Randy J. LaPolla, PhD FAHA* （羅仁地）<br class="">Professor of Linguistics, with courtesy appointment in Chinese, School<br class="">of Humanities <br class="">Nanyang Technological University<br class="">HSS-03-45, 48 Nanyang Avenue | Singapore 639818<br class="">http://randylapolla.net/<br class="">Most recent books:<br class="">/The Sino-Tibetan Languages, 2nd Edition (/2017)<br class="">https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324<br class="">/Sino-Tibetan Linguistics /(2018)<br class="">https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780415577397<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Tibeto-burman-linguistics mailing list<br class="">Tibeto-burman-linguistics@listserv.linguistlist.org<br class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/tibeto-burman-linguistics<br class=""><br class=""></blockquote>_______________________________________________<br class="">Tibeto-burman-linguistics mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Tibeto-burman-linguistics@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">Tibeto-burman-linguistics@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/tibeto-burman-linguistics<br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>