Issues 2 & 3

Erkki Kolehmainen Erkki.Kolehmainen at
Tue May 30 10:44:53 UTC 2000

Klaas, re attached:

It would appear to me logical to treat FUPA as an extension of IPA whenever
possible. Thus, if IPA has a particular encoding for a required character,
it should be used (and one should always allow for some glyph variation).
Even in the cases where IPA has a particular encoding for essentially a
required glyph but with a different meaning (because of too restrictive
naming conventions that have originally been occasionally used in the UCS
for some IPA characters), one should still consider the possibilities for
unification (but not necessarily enforce it blindly).

Regards, Erkki
Erkki I. Kolehmainen
TIEKE Tietotekniikan kehittämiskeskus ry
TIEKE Finnish Information Technology Development Centre
Salomonkatu 17 A, 10th floor, FIN-00100 HELSINKI, FINLAND
Phone: +358 9 4763 0301, Fax: +358 9 4763 0399    erkki.kolehmainen at

-----Original Message-----
From: Klaas Ruppel [mailto:Klaas.Ruppel at]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 9:31 AM
To: ura-list at
Subject: Issue 1, issues 2 & 3


I'll now try to explain what issue 2 and 3 are about:

Issue 2 and 3 deal with the Greek letters used in FUPA. Some Greek
letters are part of the IPA Extensions already in the standard.
However they are called LATIN letters there and their glyphs (graphic
presentation in the standard) differ slightly from their glyphs
within the Greek alphabet.

FUPA users have to decide which one they want to use, the latinized
ones in IPA (if they exist) or the Greek ones. This question is
important even if these letters are already part of the standard,
because in FUPA these letters are used as Subscript and Superscript
letters too.
A Superscript of the IPA LATIN GAMMA exists in the standard, but a
superscript of the GREEK GAMMA does not. So if the decision is to use
GREEK letters (and not IPA letters), we have to propose a Superscript
GREEK Gamma etc.

The glyphs for the Greek letters theta and phi in the Greek part of
the standard (and the glyph for Latin phi in the IPA Extensions) do
not match with what we are used to see in FUPA. Nevertheless the
shapes we are used to see in FUPA are in the standard namely in a
part called "Greek Symbols and Coptic". We believe that FUPA users
expect to see the latter ones and propose the corresponding
Superscript and Subscript version to be included in the standard.

The difference between Greek Theta and Greek Symbol Theta:
Greek Theta: a zero with a horizontal dash in the middle.
Greek Symbol Theta: a line curling from left in the form of half a
circle through the bottom, up on the right side to the top and then
forming a loop on the left side (hard to describe!).

Greek Phi: the letter consists of a ring crossed by a upright line.
Greek Symbol Phi: nearly a total circle drawn from the upper left
side down and then up to the right ending just before it would
connect to the beginning in a straight line down that crosses the
circle and goes below the writing line (hard to describe!).

If anybody can tell something about the history of those different
shapes I would be very grateful.

Also a special issue is Greek Eta. In FUPA it is used for the sound
eng. But in the standard we have already the letter ENG in the Latin
part. Due to the fact that in FUPA this letter stands for a consonant
and not for a vowel as in Greek we tend to prefer the Latin letter

Principal decisions to be made in regard to Greek letters:
A. If there is a (IPA) Latin version of the Greek letter in question
which one we choose?

B. Which ones to choose: Greek letters Theta, Phi or Greek Symbols
Theta, Phi (the latter ones have the "FUPA look")?

Your comments are welcome!
|\ |\ |\  Klaas Ruppel
| \| \| \ Kotus
| /| /| / Focis
|/ |/ |/  Tel. +358 9 7315 268        Fax +358 9 7315 355

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