<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Dear all,<div><br></div><div>thank you Flo and Riho! I find this a very useful initiative.</div><div><br></div><div>A few notes on East-Saamic: </div><div>* Akkala is certainly not extinct, one speaker was recently recorded, see <a href="http://corpus1.mpi.nl/ds/imdi_browser?openpath=MPI1564782%23">http://corpus1.mpi.nl/ds/imdi_browser?openpath=MPI1564782%23</a>.</div><div>* The most reliable estimation of Kildin speakers presents Scheller 2011 (or elsewhere): "The Saami language situation in Russia" in: Uralica Helsingiensia 5. Scheller distinguishes between about 100 active and 700 passive speakers. Your figure of 350 speakers is in between these two and seems reasonable to me.</div><div>* Skolt does in fact also have speakers in Norway. I personally know two speakers who live in Neiden. They are both fluent and active speakers, at least one of them is among the leading revitalizers having published books in Skolt Saami and teaching it at the school in Sevettijärvi/Finland (30km from Neiden). I have heard about a third speaker living in Kirkenes. Although they have only moved to Norway from the Finish side, they have lived in Norway permanently for several (if not many) years (both with Norwegian partners) and they continue using Skolt Saami between each other or with other visiting Skolt Saami. One of them is even a Norwegian citizen. Being permanent inhabitants of Norway, living on traditional Skolt Saami territories (in an area which was always characterized by cross-border communication) and obviously being quite active speakers, it seems anachronistic to exclude them from being counted as Skolt Saami of Norway.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Michael Rießler</div><div><div><br></div><div>-</div><div><br></div><div>Dr. Michael Rießler</div><div><div>Skandinavisches Seminar, Universität Freiburg</div><div><a href="http://www.skandinavistik.uni-freiburg.de/institut/mitarbeiter/riessler">www.skandinavistik.uni-freiburg.de/institut/mitarbeiter/riessler</a></div><div><a href="mailto:michael.riessler@skandinavistik.uni-freiburg.de">michael.riessler@skandinavistik.uni-freiburg.de</a></div></div><div><br></div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Oct 29, 2012, at 1:44 PM, Florian Siegl wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
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<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-GB">Over
the last month, the Department of
Finno-Ugric studies in Helsinki has collected and re-evaluated
existing statistical data
concerning estimated numbers of speakers (!) of individual
Uralic languages. As
this data is biased, we have decided to make our estimations
available on
Ura-List in order to gather feedback and suggestions. The
overall intention is
NOT to present an exact number of speakers (see also principles
in the attached
file) which would result in a sanctioned list, but to arrive at
a reasonably
realistic estimation which can be used e. g. in teaching,
research or PR work.
Although this should not need any further explanation, we wish
to exemplify
this with two instances which demonstrate the urgency of such an
endeavor; the
number of Lule Saami speakers has been estimated as roughly
1500-2000, and this
number has been around for a longer period. Recent estimations
from within the
Lule Saami community operate with roughly 700 speakers only –
the resulting
discrepancy is 50%. A similar case is to be expected for Forest
Nenets. The
number of speakers has been reported exceeding 1000 for quite a
while now, but
may actually not exceed 700 when taking general demographic
trends into
consideration. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-GB">Further,
several languages were once a
while reported as extinct (e. g. Livonian, Ume Saami and Pite
Saami) though for
all languages L1 speakers could still be found. Possibly Akkala
Saami could also
be added to this list.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-GB">As
Ura-List, unfortunately, does not stimulate
much online discussion, we encourage subscribers to comment this
particular matter online. Of course,
we also welcome offline comments. These should be sent to <a href="mailto:florian.siegl@helsinki.fi">florian.siegl@helsinki.fi</a>.
Please
state on which kind of evidence your assumptions rest and if
possible provide
links to further online resources, own work etc. Please also
state if we are
allowed to quote your data/assumption publicly as p. c. if this
would become
necessary.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-GB">A
summary will be posted on Ura-List. A
more “official” mode of representation is currently also thought
of perhaps resulting
in an updated version of the 1992 map <i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">Geographical
Distribution of the Uralic Languages</i> (then compiled by
Grünthal &
Salminen). A suitable online forum is also currently debated on.
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-GB">Last,
but not least, please forward this
message to colleagues and language activists who are not
subscribers of
Ura-List.<br>
</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-GB"><br>
</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-GB">Florian
Siegl<br>
</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City">
</o:smarttagtype></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman"" lang="EN-GB"><br>
PhD,
researcher</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman"" lang="EN-GB">Department
of Finnish, Finno-Ugrian and Scandinavian Studies, <st1:address w:st="on"><st1:street w:st="on"><br>
P.O.Box</st1:street> 24</st1:address><br>
FIN-00014 <st1:city w:st="on">University of Helsinki</st1:city><br>
Finland</span></p>
<br>
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<span><Uralic_Languages_Speakers_2012.doc></span></blockquote></div><div apple-content-edited="true"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><br></div></div></span></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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