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<blockquote type="cite" cite>VYAKARAN: South Asian Languages and
Linguistics Net<br>
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Dear Clancy:</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>I was happy to hear from you, and hope that all is going
well.</div>
<div>My guess would be that this results from the ability of thye
causative affix to form ditransitive verbs or causatives, depending at
least in part on the base verb. That happens in other South Asian
languages as well, especially where the (second) objectis an
experiencer in one reading. Though i would have to dig up examples,
one occurs to me.Thus Sinhala kanawaa is 'eat';kawanawaa (caus) is
feed', and the "feedee" is in the dative . I am reasonably
sure that, though a further 9double) causative is morphologically
possible (kawawanawaa (> /kawoonawaa/ optionally, the single
causative form could also be used as a "true"causative with
the causee in the usual form (in Sinhala one of several postpositions,
among them lawaa). In that case, it is of course also possible to have
both the causee and the one fed (experiencer). One test here would be
(1) whether the second Kannada example is also expandable in this way
with the relevant change of meaning, and (2) whether the base verb is
also possible with an unexpressed direct object (compare English 'he
made me eat' vs. 'he fed me', and this doesn't seem so exotic). In
principle, if something like this is to go through, if there is no
overt experiencer, as in the second Kannada example, the sense
that some unspecified individual, or more likely set of them, is
fed by the causee should be possible, as allowed by the possibility of
null pronouns, including indefinites, in these languages.. Here I have
to resort to something like 'he made me do the feeding of the
biscuits' in English</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Note that Sridhar, in his Kannada grammar in the Routledge
series, deals with this in descriptive/semantic terms (pp. 218-19, sec
2.1.3.1.3.2), pointing out that the difference is experiencer
(taking the dative) vs. agentivity of causee (instrumental). That is,
I think, consistent with my off the cuff syntactic analysis above
which occurred to me before consulting Sridhar. Also, it seems
consistent in spirit with Gail Coelho's remarks.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>This is, of course,connected with the fascinating and
complex area of South Asian causatives and associated
processes. However, your original question involved comitatives,
and that is not necessarily closely connected.</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Mohanan did not give any examples in the
source referred to. I haven'thad atha time or opportunity to get to
wider sources, but in Sri lankan Tamil, at any rate, to tell someone
to do something with collu 'tell' takes the "tellee" in
either the accusative or referential case (-iTTa;= postposition
(k)iTTe in mainland dialects,and variously named... it can be seen as
a case affix in SLT.):</blockquote>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>avaraye cappiTac colluñko 'him(Dat) to-eat tell'</div>
<div>avariTTay cappiTac colluñko 'him(Ref) to-eat tell'</div>
<div>'Tell him to eat'</div>
<div> (Gair, Suseendirarajah and Karunatilaka,<u> An Introduction
to Spoken [Sri Lankan Jaffna] Tamil, p.72)</u></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I am not aware of any difference in meaning, but there may be one
thath I missed.</div>
<div>This may or may not be relevant to your query, but some of the
Dravidian specialists may come up wity more and better. I'll have a
further look when I get a chance,</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Hello,</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I have a question regarding case marking
in Malayalam, Tamil, Kannada, and<br>
Marathi. I'm interested in cases of case marking of DATIVE and
COMITATIVE or<br>
DATIVE and INSTRUMENTAL with the same suffix.<br>
<br>
First, K.P. Mohanan (in his description of Malayalam in the
_Intern.<br>
Encyclopedia of Linguistics_, p. 373) states that indirect objects
are</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>marked by either the dative or the
comitative suffix. That is, the<br>
comitative suffix can mark the comitative relation, but also the
dative<br>
relation.<br>
<br>
In Kannada, one finds the dative relation marked by the dative or
the<br>
instrumental suffix, as in the examples below.<br>
<br>
Avanu-0 nana-ge bisket-annu tin-is-id-anu<br>
3SG-NOM 1SG-DAT biscuit-ACC eat-CAUS-PAST-3SG-MASC<br>
'He fed me the biscuit.'<br>
<br>
Avanu-0 nana-inda bisket-annu tin-is-id-anu<br>
3SG-NOM 1SG-INST biscuit-ACC eat-CAUS-PAST-3SG-MASC<br>
'He had me eat a biscuit.'<br>
<br>
This is the type of marking I'm interested in.<br>
<br>
<br>
My questions are:<br>
1) Regarding Malayalam, is there a difference in meaning (e.g. logical
or<br>
conversational implicatures) between marking an indirect object with
a<br>
dative or comitative marker? If so, how would one describe the
difference?<br>
<br>
2) Does Tamil have this type of marking, where the indirect object
is<br>
marked by a dative suffix or by an instrumental or comitative suffix?
If<br>
so, are there differences in meaning expressing by using one or the
other<br>
marker? If so, how would one describe them?<br>
<br>
3) Does Telegu also have this type of marking??<br>
<br>
Any information on these questions would be greatly appreciated.<br>
<br>
Thanks very much,<br>
<br>
<br>
Clancy Clements<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span
></span>
*********************************************<br>
<span
></span> J. Clancy Clements<br>
<span
></span> Associate Professor of Spanish and
Portuguese<br>
<span
></span> Adjunct Associate Professor of
Linguistics<br>
<span
></span> Director of Undergraduate Studies<br>
<span
></span> Dept. of Spanish and Portuguese,
BH844, IU-B<br>
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></span> 1020 East Kirkwood Avenue<br>
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></span> Bloomington, IN 47405<br>
<span
></span> Tel 812-855-8612; Fax
812-855-4526<br>
<span
></span>
http://www.indiana.edu/~spanport/clements.html<br>
<span
></span>
*********************************************</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
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