VYAKARAN: South Asian Languages and Linguistics Net
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John Peterson, University of Osnabrueck, Germany
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<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><div id="yiv1577558579"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" id="bodyDrftID" class=""><tbody><tr><td id="drftMsgContent" style="font:inherit;">Dear All, <div>I think i am missing something here.. Is this forum a linguistics forum, an academic forum or a forum of something else? Do we have a moderator around? This is the second time we have received mails from Mr Gogate and they dont seem to be relevant. i guess there will be forums for this stuff somewhere else. Please let me know if this forum is a forum of politics, society-matters, etc. if so i would like to discontinue being a part of this forum. somebody please let me know.</div><div>Regards,</div><div>Aadil<br><br>--- On <b>Fri, 3/12/10, Madhukar N. Gogate <i><mngogate1932@YAHOO.COM></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16, 16,
255);margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px;"><br>From: Madhukar N. Gogate <mngogate1932@YAHOO.COM><br>Subject: Savarkar, Hindutva (closure)<br>To: VYAKARAN@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU<br>Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 3:14 PM<br><br><div id="yiv299172769">VYAKARAN: South Asian Languages and Linguistics Net
Editors: Tej K. Bhatia, Syracuse University, New York
John Peterson, University of Osnabrueck, Germany
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<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="font:inherit;"><div id="yiv576390631">
<div><em>=========================================</em></div>
<div><em>Subject >> Savarkar, Hindutva Pune, 12 March 2010</em></div>
<div><em>I received many comments by email, phones etc. I give</em></div>
<div><em>briefly few. Think over. Thanks, I close the topic - MNG </em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 1</em></div>
<div><em>Important points have been raised. Food for thought.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 2</em></div>
<div><em>Instances of Christian terrorism in </em><em>north-east states. </em></div>
<div><em>Monetary temptations too.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 3</em></div>
<div><em>Social reform is slow process, spread on many years</em></div>
<div><em>and generations. Present day Hindus dont subscribe</em></div>
<div><em>to Untouchability. They are sorry their ancestors had</em></div>
<div><em>practised it. Muslim society very very slow to reforms.</em></div>
<div><em>Ofcourse many patriotic Muslims have enriched India.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 4</em></div>
<div><em>In view of Tikekar's letter, MNG's apology is sporting.</em></div>
<div><em>Terrorists kill innocents, some of their religion too.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 5</em></div>
<div><em>Educate Western media. They say a "Hindu" fanatic</em></div>
<div><em>killed Gandhi. They dont say that "Christian" fanatic</em></div>
<div><em>killed Lincoln, or Kennedy.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 6</em></div>
<div><em>Basically Hindus tolerant, peace-loving. Jews, Parsis</em></div>
<div><em>of foreign origin settled in India comfortably.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 7</em></div>
<div><em>In 2002, terrorism deaths were less in Kashmir, much</em></div>
<div><em>more in Gujarat, a record number in that decade.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 8</em></div>
<div><em>"The Roots of Terrorism" year 2009, edited by Anand</em></div>
<div><em>Shankar (Shraddha Prakashan, Delhi) is eye-opener.</em></div>
<div><em>It contains articles, by many intellectuals. One says</em></div>
<div><em>that there are 32000 Madarsas in India having 74000</em></div>
<div><em>teachers and 18 lakh students, getting huge finances</em></div>
<div><em>from oil rich middle-east. They teach students to hate</em></div>
<div><em>non-Muslims, eventually become terrorists (Jihad etc).</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 9</em></div>
<div><em>Savarkar was great patriot. He was against casteism</em></div>
<div><em>and untouchability. His Devanagari script reforms are</em></div>
<div><em>irrelevant now, since computers tackle traditional lipi.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 10</em></div>
<div><em>There are high-caste sammelans too. Their leaders</em></div>
<div><em>emphasize on using sacred thread (jaanve), though</em></div>
<div><em>probably 90% audience do not wear it. They forced</em></div>
<div><em>a Professor to apologize when the Professor spoke</em></div>
<div><em>that the thread has lost relevance, is out-of-date.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 11</em></div>
<div><em>Why exodus > Marathi to English medium schools?</em></div>
<div><em>The real reason (not openly stated) is many parents</em></div>
<div><em>of high caste students dont want mixing with others.</em></div>
<div><em>Convent schools (no Govt aid) expensive for others.</em></div>
<div><em>Also, English language fluency essential for career.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 12</em></div>
<div><em>Education in mothertongue is good, but what about</em></div>
<div><em>Nation-Building ? America is a melting pot, forcing</em></div>
<div><em>non-English-speaking immigrants to study English,</em></div>
<div><em>all work in English (mothertongue in homes, clubs).</em></div>
<div><em>English language worked as their powerful cement.</em></div>
<div><em>.............................................................................</em></div>
<div><em>I have apologized to Mr. Aroon Tikekar. To amend error,</em></div>
<div><em>I circulate (BCC) apology & previous mails to all, whom </em></div>
<div><em>I had sent my mail subject "Savarkar, Hindutva". I have</em></div>
<div><em>omitted Tikekar's email-id, to keep his privacy. -- MNG</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div>--- On <b>Sun, 7/3/10, Madhukar N. Gogate </b></div>
<div><b><i><mngogate1932@yahoo.com></i></b> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;"><br>From: Madhukar N. Gogate <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://in.mc1132.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mngogate1932@yahoo.com">mngogate1932@yahoo.com</a><br>Date: Sunday, 7 March, 2010, 1:25 PM<br><br>
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<div><font size="2">Dear Mr Tikekar,</font><font size="2">.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2">I mentioned you, since your statement was revealing to</font></div>
<div><font size="2">me. I felt that due credit should be given to you in mail.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">I recall that you said Hindu terrorists outnumber Muslim</font></div>
<div><font size="2">terrorists in India. That is what I meant by Statistics.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font size="2">I dont remember, venue, year. I recall Bhai Vaidya was</font></div>
<div><font size="2">chairman. The talk may be at at SM Joshi hall Pune. To</font></div>
<div><font size="2">check matters I phoned Mr Vaidya. He said he does not</font></div>
<div><font size="2">remember now. He mentioned he (Bhai Vaidya), Kumar </font></div>
<div><font size="2">Ketkar openly refer to large number of Hindu terrorists in</font></div>
<div><font size="2">India. Bhai also referred to the Bodo agitation in Assam.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font size="2">This is a lesson to me. I should have mentioned the point</font></div>
<div><font size="2">without quoting you. Since you have denied the quotation,</font></div>
<div><font size="2">and I cannot give evidence, I apologize. Please store this</font></div>
<div><font size="2">mail for any future reference, if needed. Sorry, once again.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font size="2">Regards,</font></div>
<div><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font size="2">-- M. N. Gogate (</font><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.mngogate.com/"><font size="2">www.mngogate.com</font></a><font size="2">) Pune 7 March 2010.</font></div><font size="2">
</font><div><font size="2"><br></font>.........................................................................................<br><font size="2">From: Aroon tikekar </font></div>
<div><font size="2">To: "Madhukar Gogate" <mngogate1932@yahoo.com><br>Date: Sunday, 7 March, 2010, 12:23 PM<br></font><font size="2"><br>Dear Mr. Gogate,<br>Your statements regarding my "astonishing the Pune audience " for<br>calling some people as "Hindu terrorists" is intriguing to me, to say<br>the least. As a person serious by nature I am not prone to making<br>provocative speeches. Is it a case of mistaken identity?<br><br>I am not even known for giving statistics in my public utterances. I<br>firmly believe that statistics can be misleading. I restict to ideas<br>and am happy with that. My subjects too are limited and I do not<br>generally cross my limits. I am careful about the words I employ. You<br>know it.<br>I shall stand corrected if you could inform me the place, the year and<br>the topic of my speech as I do not remember to have said anything of<br>that sort. Such statements ascribed to me by you appear to
be<br>uncharacteristic in my context and hence my doubt of mistaken<br>identity. There are a couple of other editors who are prone to make<br>such statements publically.<br><br>Regards,<br>Aroon Tikekar</font><br>.......................................................................................</div></td></tr></tbody></table>
<div id="yiv266866631">
<div><em>================================</em></div>
<div><em>A discussion (March 2010) in a group about</em></div>
<div><em>Savarkar, Hindutva etc. My points below ></em></div>
<div><em>Any comments ? ----- (<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.mngogate.com/">www.mngogate.com</a>) </em></div>
<div>---------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>A person (not here) asked my opinion on </div>
<div>Hussein's picture of naked Saraswati Devi,</div>
<div>or Toiletseat maker painting Hindu deity on </div>
<div>reverse of cover. Agreed, they are insults to</div>
<div>Hindu ethos. Campaign against these ok.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>These are outward symbols, but we must</div>
<div>introspect on inner vices, and do reforms.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>No use patting our back that Vivekanand</div>
<div>stunned Chicago gathering, starting with</div>
<div>words "Brothers and Sisters". That time,</div>
<div>Upper castes in India were treating lower</div>
<div>castes like slaves, also as untouchables. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Shejwalkar (Historian) put it bluntly that</div>
<div>while Europeans were discussing whether</div>
<div>India could be reached by travelling West</div>
<div>as well... Hindus in India were discussing</div>
<div>whether vertical or horizontal gandha lines</div>
<div>on human forehead were more sacred !!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Why criticize Muslims and Christians for</div>
<div>their conversion campaigns, when Hindu</div>
<div>religion is doing harakiri, of no conversion</div>
<div>allowed, with rigid caste & subcaste walls.</div>
<div>So none converts. What will be his caste ?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Arun Tikekar stunned a Pune meeting years</div>
<div>ago by statistics that killers of Rajiv Gandhi</div>
<div>(and other conspirators), LTTE Prabhakaran</div>
<div>etc, sandalwood robber Veerappan etc were </div>
<div>Hindu Terrorists ! This explodes a pet theory</div>
<div>that Terrorists are generally Muslims !! Mao</div>
<div>terrorists today are not necessarily Muslims.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Films dramatize to some extent. Aurangzeb</div>
<div>always stood on a carpet about 15 ft by 15 ft,</div>
<div>for security, and proclaiming his royalty. His</div>
<div>advisers had to speak from a distance. But</div>
<div>films show advisers telling him in his ears !!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Truth is Truth. Savarkar swimmed (swam ?)</div>
<div>how much distance before reaching coast ?</div>
<div>Any research? Ignore film dramatization on</div>
<div>Savarkar's escape to Marseilles, France.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>How many people follow Savarkar? He said</div>
<div>Cow is an animal (not goddess). How many</div>
<div>Hindus eat beef ? Savarkar suggested new</div>
<div>vowel symbols (matra on अ) in place of (ए) </div>
<div>etc. Not accepted !! (Kirloskar magazines</div>
<div>tried for some time, later gave up). Subject</div>
<div>for research. No use just praising Savarkar.</div>
<div>===============================</div>
<div>END</div>
<div>======================================</div></div><br></div></blockquote></div></td></tr></tbody></table><br>
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