VYAKARAN: South Asian Languages and Linguistics Net
Editors: Tej K. Bhatia, Syracuse University, New York
John Peterson, University of Osnabrueck, Germany
Details: Send email to listserv@listserv.syr.edu and say: INFO VYAKARAN
Subscribe:Send email to listserv@listserv.syr.edu and say:
SUBSCRIBE VYAKARAN FIRST_NAME LAST_NAME
(Substitute your real name for first_name last_name)
Archives: http://listserv.syr.edu
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV id=yiv576390631>
<DIV><EM>=========================================</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Subject >> Savarkar, Hindutva Pune, 12 March 2010</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>I received many comments by email, phones etc. I give</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>briefly few. Think over. Thanks, I close the topic - MNG </EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>Comment 1</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Important points have been raised. Food for thought.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>Comment 2</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Instances of Christian terrorism in </EM><EM>north-east states. </EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Monetary temptations too.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>Comment 3</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Social reform is slow process, spread on many years</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>and generations. Present day Hindus dont subscribe</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>to Untouchability. They are sorry their ancestors had</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>practised it. Muslim society very very slow to reforms.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Ofcourse many patriotic Muslims have enriched India.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>Comment 4</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>In view of Tikekar's letter, MNG's apology is sporting.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Terrorists kill innocents, some of their religion too.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>Comment 5</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Educate Western media. They say a "Hindu" fanatic</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>killed Gandhi. They dont say that "Christian" fanatic</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>killed Lincoln, or Kennedy.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>Comment 6</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Basically Hindus tolerant, peace-loving. Jews, Parsis</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>of foreign origin settled in India comfortably.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>Comment 7</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>In 2002, terrorism deaths were less in Kashmir, much</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>more in Gujarat, a record number in that decade.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>Comment 8</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>"The Roots of Terrorism" year 2009, edited by Anand</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Shankar (Shraddha Prakashan, Delhi) is eye-opener.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>It contains articles, by many intellectuals. One says</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>that there are 32000 Madarsas in India having 74000</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>teachers and 18 lakh students, getting huge finances</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>from oil rich middle-east. They teach students to hate</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>non-Muslims, eventually become terrorists (Jihad etc).</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>Comment 9</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Savarkar was great patriot. He was against casteism</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>and untouchability. His Devanagari script reforms are</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>irrelevant now, since computers tackle traditional lipi.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>Comment 10</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>There are high-caste sammelans too. Their leaders</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>emphasize on using sacred thread (jaanve), though</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>probably 90% audience do not wear it. They forced</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>a Professor to apologize when the Professor spoke</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>that the thread has lost relevance, is out-of-date.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>Comment 11</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Why exodus > Marathi to English medium schools?</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>The real reason (not openly stated) is many parents</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>of high caste students dont want mixing with others.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Convent schools (no Govt aid) expensive for others.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Also, English language fluency essential for career.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>Comment 12</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Education in mothertongue is good, but what about</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Nation-Building ? America is a melting pot, forcing</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>non-English-speaking immigrants to study English,</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>all work in English (mothertongue in homes, clubs).</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>English language worked as their powerful cement.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>.............................................................................</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>I have apologized to Mr. Aroon Tikekar. To amend error,</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>I circulate (BCC) apology & previous mails to all, whom </EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>I had sent my mail subject "Savarkar, Hindutva". I have</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>omitted Tikekar's email-id, to keep his privacy. -- MNG</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV>--- On <B>Sun, 7/3/10, Madhukar N. Gogate </B></DIV>
<DIV><B><I><mngogate1932@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Madhukar N. Gogate <A href="http://in.mc1132.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mngogate1932@yahoo.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank>mngogate1932@yahoo.com</A><BR>Date: Sunday, 7 March, 2010, 1:25 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv1834915166>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Dear Mr Tikekar,</FONT><FONT size=2>.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I mentioned you, since your statement was revealing to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>me. I felt that due credit should be given to you in mail.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I recall that you said Hindu terrorists outnumber Muslim</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>terrorists in India. That is what I meant by Statistics.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I dont remember, venue, year. I recall Bhai Vaidya was</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>chairman. The talk may be at at SM Joshi hall Pune. To</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>check matters I phoned Mr Vaidya. He said he does not</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>remember now. He mentioned he (Bhai Vaidya), Kumar </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Ketkar openly refer to large number of Hindu terrorists in</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>India. Bhai also referred to the Bodo agitation in Assam.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>This is a lesson to me. I should have mentioned the point</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>without quoting you. Since you have denied the quotation,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>and I cannot give evidence, I apologize. Please store this</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>mail for any future reference, if needed. Sorry, once again.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>-- M. N. Gogate (</FONT><A href="http://www.mngogate.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank><FONT size=2>www.mngogate.com</FONT></A><FONT size=2>) Pune 7 March 2010.</FONT></DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV><BR></FONT>.........................................................................................<BR><FONT size=2>From: Aroon tikekar </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>To: "Madhukar Gogate" <mngogate1932@yahoo.com><BR>Date: Sunday, 7 March, 2010, 12:23 PM<BR></FONT><FONT size=2><BR>Dear Mr. Gogate,<BR>Your statements regarding my "astonishing the Pune audience " for<BR>calling some people as "Hindu terrorists" is intriguing to me, to say<BR>the least. As a person serious by nature I am not prone to making<BR>provocative speeches. Is it a case of mistaken identity?<BR><BR>I am not even known for giving statistics in my public utterances. I<BR>firmly believe that statistics can be misleading. I restict to ideas<BR>and am happy with that. My subjects too are limited and I do not<BR>generally cross my limits. I am careful about the words I employ. You<BR>know it.<BR>I shall stand corrected if you could inform me the place, the year and<BR>the topic of my speech as I do not remember to have said anything of<BR>that sort. Such statements ascribed to me by you appear to
be<BR>uncharacteristic in my context and hence my doubt of mistaken<BR>identity. There are a couple of other editors who are prone to make<BR>such statements publically.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Aroon Tikekar</FONT><BR>.......................................................................................</DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<DIV id=yiv266866631>
<DIV><EM>================================</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>A discussion (March 2010) in a group about</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Savarkar, Hindutva etc. My points below ></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Any comments ? ----- (<A href="http://www.mngogate.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.mngogate.com</A>) </EM></DIV>
<DIV>---------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV>A person (not here) asked my opinion on </DIV>
<DIV>Hussein's picture of naked Saraswati Devi,</DIV>
<DIV>or Toiletseat maker painting Hindu deity on </DIV>
<DIV>reverse of cover. Agreed, they are insults to</DIV>
<DIV>Hindu ethos. Campaign against these ok.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>These are outward symbols, but we must</DIV>
<DIV>introspect on inner vices, and do reforms.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>No use patting our back that Vivekanand</DIV>
<DIV>stunned Chicago gathering, starting with</DIV>
<DIV>words "Brothers and Sisters". That time,</DIV>
<DIV>Upper castes in India were treating lower</DIV>
<DIV>castes like slaves, also as untouchables. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Shejwalkar (Historian) put it bluntly that</DIV>
<DIV>while Europeans were discussing whether</DIV>
<DIV>India could be reached by travelling West</DIV>
<DIV>as well... Hindus in India were discussing</DIV>
<DIV>whether vertical or horizontal gandha lines</DIV>
<DIV>on human forehead were more sacred !!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Why criticize Muslims and Christians for</DIV>
<DIV>their conversion campaigns, when Hindu</DIV>
<DIV>religion is doing harakiri, of no conversion</DIV>
<DIV>allowed, with rigid caste & subcaste walls.</DIV>
<DIV>So none converts. What will be his caste ?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Arun Tikekar stunned a Pune meeting years</DIV>
<DIV>ago by statistics that killers of Rajiv Gandhi</DIV>
<DIV>(and other conspirators), LTTE Prabhakaran</DIV>
<DIV>etc, sandalwood robber Veerappan etc were </DIV>
<DIV>Hindu Terrorists ! This explodes a pet theory</DIV>
<DIV>that Terrorists are generally Muslims !! Mao</DIV>
<DIV>terrorists today are not necessarily Muslims.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Films dramatize to some extent. Aurangzeb</DIV>
<DIV>always stood on a carpet about 15 ft by 15 ft,</DIV>
<DIV>for security, and proclaiming his royalty. His</DIV>
<DIV>advisers had to speak from a distance. But</DIV>
<DIV>films show advisers telling him in his ears !!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Truth is Truth. Savarkar swimmed (swam ?)</DIV>
<DIV>how much distance before reaching coast ?</DIV>
<DIV>Any research? Ignore film dramatization on</DIV>
<DIV>Savarkar's escape to Marseilles, France.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>How many people follow Savarkar? He said</DIV>
<DIV>Cow is an animal (not goddess). How many</DIV>
<DIV>Hindus eat beef ? Savarkar suggested new</DIV>
<DIV>vowel symbols (matra on अ) in place of (ए) </DIV>
<DIV>etc. Not accepted !! (Kirloskar magazines</DIV>
<DIV>tried for some time, later gave up). Subject</DIV>
<DIV>for research. No use just praising Savarkar.</DIV>
<DIV>===============================</DIV>
<DIV>END</DIV>
<DIV>======================================</DIV></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></td></tr></table><br>
<!--1--><hr size=1></hr>
Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. <a href="http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_ie8_new/*http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/" target="_blank">Get it NOW!</a>.