VYAKARAN: South Asian Languages and Linguistics Net
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<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><div>Dear All</div>Excuse me... i thought this is a forum of linguistics. but it appears this is something else... Mr Gogate seems to be propounding something else here.. will the moderators please see what exactly is going on. this is second such mail which i feel has nothing to do with what this forum is all about. if i am wrong do correct me.<div>Regards,</div><div>Aadil<br><br>--- On <b>Fri, 3/12/10, Madhukar N. Gogate <i><mngogate1932@YAHOO.COM></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Madhukar N. Gogate <mngogate1932@YAHOO.COM><br>Subject: Savarkar, Hindutva (closure)<br>To: VYAKARAN@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU<br>Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 3:14 PM<br><br><div id="yiv848755032">VYAKARAN: South Asian Languages and Linguistics Net
Editors: Tej K. Bhatia, Syracuse University, New York
John Peterson, University of Osnabrueck, Germany
Details: Send email to listserv@listserv.syr.edu and say: INFO VYAKARAN
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<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="font:inherit;"><div id="yiv576390631">
<div><em>=========================================</em></div>
<div><em>Subject >> Savarkar, Hindutva Pune, 12 March 2010</em></div>
<div><em>I received many comments by email, phones etc. I give</em></div>
<div><em>briefly few. Think over. Thanks, I close the topic - MNG </em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 1</em></div>
<div><em>Important points have been raised. Food for thought.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 2</em></div>
<div><em>Instances of Christian terrorism in </em><em>north-east states. </em></div>
<div><em>Monetary temptations too.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 3</em></div>
<div><em>Social reform is slow process, spread on many years</em></div>
<div><em>and generations. Present day Hindus dont subscribe</em></div>
<div><em>to Untouchability. They are sorry their ancestors had</em></div>
<div><em>practised it. Muslim society very very slow to reforms.</em></div>
<div><em>Ofcourse many patriotic Muslims have enriched India.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 4</em></div>
<div><em>In view of Tikekar's letter, MNG's apology is sporting.</em></div>
<div><em>Terrorists kill innocents, some of their religion too.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 5</em></div>
<div><em>Educate Western media. They say a "Hindu" fanatic</em></div>
<div><em>killed Gandhi. They dont say that "Christian" fanatic</em></div>
<div><em>killed Lincoln, or Kennedy.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 6</em></div>
<div><em>Basically Hindus tolerant, peace-loving. Jews, Parsis</em></div>
<div><em>of foreign origin settled in India comfortably.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 7</em></div>
<div><em>In 2002, terrorism deaths were less in Kashmir, much</em></div>
<div><em>more in Gujarat, a record number in that decade.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 8</em></div>
<div><em>"The Roots of Terrorism" year 2009, edited by Anand</em></div>
<div><em>Shankar (Shraddha Prakashan, Delhi) is eye-opener.</em></div>
<div><em>It contains articles, by many intellectuals. One says</em></div>
<div><em>that there are 32000 Madarsas in India having 74000</em></div>
<div><em>teachers and 18 lakh students, getting huge finances</em></div>
<div><em>from oil rich middle-east. They teach students to hate</em></div>
<div><em>non-Muslims, eventually become terrorists (Jihad etc).</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 9</em></div>
<div><em>Savarkar was great patriot. He was against casteism</em></div>
<div><em>and untouchability. His Devanagari script reforms are</em></div>
<div><em>irrelevant now, since computers tackle traditional lipi.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 10</em></div>
<div><em>There are high-caste sammelans too. Their leaders</em></div>
<div><em>emphasize on using sacred thread (jaanve), though</em></div>
<div><em>probably 90% audience do not wear it. They forced</em></div>
<div><em>a Professor to apologize when the Professor spoke</em></div>
<div><em>that the thread has lost relevance, is out-of-date.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 11</em></div>
<div><em>Why exodus > Marathi to English medium schools?</em></div>
<div><em>The real reason (not openly stated) is many parents</em></div>
<div><em>of high caste students dont want mixing with others.</em></div>
<div><em>Convent schools (no Govt aid) expensive for others.</em></div>
<div><em>Also, English language fluency essential for career.</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div><em>Comment 12</em></div>
<div><em>Education in mothertongue is good, but what about</em></div>
<div><em>Nation-Building ? America is a melting pot, forcing</em></div>
<div><em>non-English-speaking immigrants to study English,</em></div>
<div><em>all work in English (mothertongue in homes, clubs).</em></div>
<div><em>English language worked as their powerful cement.</em></div>
<div><em>.............................................................................</em></div>
<div><em>I have apologized to Mr. Aroon Tikekar. To amend error,</em></div>
<div><em>I circulate (BCC) apology & previous mails to all, whom </em></div>
<div><em>I had sent my mail subject "Savarkar, Hindutva". I have</em></div>
<div><em>omitted Tikekar's email-id, to keep his privacy. -- MNG</em></div>
<div><em></em> </div>
<div>--- On <b>Sun, 7/3/10, Madhukar N. Gogate </b></div>
<div><b><i><mngogate1932@yahoo.com></i></b> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;"><br>From: Madhukar N. Gogate <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://in.mc1132.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mngogate1932@yahoo.com">mngogate1932@yahoo.com</a><br>Date: Sunday, 7 March, 2010, 1:25 PM<br><br>
<div id="yiv1834915166">
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<div><font size="2">Dear Mr Tikekar,</font><font size="2">.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2">I mentioned you, since your statement was revealing to</font></div>
<div><font size="2">me. I felt that due credit should be given to you in mail.</font></div>
<div><font size="2">I recall that you said Hindu terrorists outnumber Muslim</font></div>
<div><font size="2">terrorists in India. That is what I meant by Statistics.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font size="2">I dont remember, venue, year. I recall Bhai Vaidya was</font></div>
<div><font size="2">chairman. The talk may be at at SM Joshi hall Pune. To</font></div>
<div><font size="2">check matters I phoned Mr Vaidya. He said he does not</font></div>
<div><font size="2">remember now. He mentioned he (Bhai Vaidya), Kumar </font></div>
<div><font size="2">Ketkar openly refer to large number of Hindu terrorists in</font></div>
<div><font size="2">India. Bhai also referred to the Bodo agitation in Assam.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font size="2">This is a lesson to me. I should have mentioned the point</font></div>
<div><font size="2">without quoting you. Since you have denied the quotation,</font></div>
<div><font size="2">and I cannot give evidence, I apologize. Please store this</font></div>
<div><font size="2">mail for any future reference, if needed. Sorry, once again.</font></div>
<div><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font size="2">Regards,</font></div>
<div><font size="2"> </font></div>
<div><font size="2">-- M. N. Gogate (</font><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.mngogate.com/"><font size="2">www.mngogate.com</font></a><font size="2">) Pune 7 March 2010.</font></div><font size="2">
</font><div><font size="2"><br></font>.........................................................................................<br><font size="2">From: Aroon tikekar </font></div>
<div><font size="2">To: "Madhukar Gogate" <mngogate1932@yahoo.com><br>Date: Sunday, 7 March, 2010, 12:23 PM<br></font><font size="2"><br>Dear Mr. Gogate,<br>Your statements regarding my "astonishing the Pune audience " for<br>calling some people as "Hindu terrorists" is intriguing to me, to say<br>the least. As a person serious by nature I am not prone to making<br>provocative speeches. Is it a case of mistaken identity?<br><br>I am not even known for giving statistics in my public utterances. I<br>firmly believe that statistics can be misleading. I restict to ideas<br>and am happy with that. My subjects too are limited and I do not<br>generally cross my limits. I am careful about the words I employ. You<br>know it.<br>I shall stand corrected if you could inform me the place, the year and<br>the topic of my speech as I do not remember to have said anything of<br>that sort. Such statements ascribed to me by you appear to
be<br>uncharacteristic in my context and hence my doubt of mistaken<br>identity. There are a couple of other editors who are prone to make<br>such statements publically.<br><br>Regards,<br>Aroon Tikekar</font><br>.......................................................................................</div></td></tr></tbody></table>
<div id="yiv266866631">
<div><em>================================</em></div>
<div><em>A discussion (March 2010) in a group about</em></div>
<div><em>Savarkar, Hindutva etc. My points below ></em></div>
<div><em>Any comments ? ----- (<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.mngogate.com/">www.mngogate.com</a>) </em></div>
<div>---------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>A person (not here) asked my opinion on </div>
<div>Hussein's picture of naked Saraswati Devi,</div>
<div>or Toiletseat maker painting Hindu deity on </div>
<div>reverse of cover. Agreed, they are insults to</div>
<div>Hindu ethos. Campaign against these ok.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>These are outward symbols, but we must</div>
<div>introspect on inner vices, and do reforms.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>No use patting our back that Vivekanand</div>
<div>stunned Chicago gathering, starting with</div>
<div>words "Brothers and Sisters". That time,</div>
<div>Upper castes in India were treating lower</div>
<div>castes like slaves, also as untouchables. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Shejwalkar (Historian) put it bluntly that</div>
<div>while Europeans were discussing whether</div>
<div>India could be reached by travelling West</div>
<div>as well... Hindus in India were discussing</div>
<div>whether vertical or horizontal gandha lines</div>
<div>on human forehead were more sacred !!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Why criticize Muslims and Christians for</div>
<div>their conversion campaigns, when Hindu</div>
<div>religion is doing harakiri, of no conversion</div>
<div>allowed, with rigid caste & subcaste walls.</div>
<div>So none converts. What will be his caste ?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Arun Tikekar stunned a Pune meeting years</div>
<div>ago by statistics that killers of Rajiv Gandhi</div>
<div>(and other conspirators), LTTE Prabhakaran</div>
<div>etc, sandalwood robber Veerappan etc were </div>
<div>Hindu Terrorists ! This explodes a pet theory</div>
<div>that Terrorists are generally Muslims !! Mao</div>
<div>terrorists today are not necessarily Muslims.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Films dramatize to some extent. Aurangzeb</div>
<div>always stood on a carpet about 15 ft by 15 ft,</div>
<div>for security, and proclaiming his royalty. His</div>
<div>advisers had to speak from a distance. But</div>
<div>films show advisers telling him in his ears !!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Truth is Truth. Savarkar swimmed (swam ?)</div>
<div>how much distance before reaching coast ?</div>
<div>Any research? Ignore film dramatization on</div>
<div>Savarkar's escape to Marseilles, France.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>How many people follow Savarkar? He said</div>
<div>Cow is an animal (not goddess). How many</div>
<div>Hindus eat beef ? Savarkar suggested new</div>
<div>vowel symbols (matra on अ) in place of (ए) </div>
<div>etc. Not accepted !! (Kirloskar magazines</div>
<div>tried for some time, later gave up). Subject</div>
<div>for research. No use just praising Savarkar.</div>
<div>===============================</div>
<div>END</div>
<div>======================================</div></div><br></div></blockquote></div></td></tr></tbody></table><br>
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