VYAKARAN: South Asian Languages and Linguistics Net
Editors: Tej K. Bhatia, Syracuse University, New York
John Peterson, University of Osnabrueck, Germany
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<DIV>Mumbai has always been called Mumbai by speakers of Marathi since certainly
the 17th century. Hindi Speakers call it bumbaai, which seems a corruption
of the English Bombay. I believe Gujaratis (probably second largest
linguistic group after Marathi speakers also call it Mumbai. I was born a
Marathi speaking mumbaikar and there was never any doubt in my mind that its
proper name is Mumbai.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There is little doubt that the move to reassert the local name was
triggered by two events. One, the reorganisation of the states on a
linguistic basis in the late 1950s when there was a considerable dispute over
whether Mumbai should go to Maharashtra or Gujarat and some people also wanted
it to become a city state rather like Goa. Maharashtra won out and Mumbai
became the state capital, always referred to in the state’s official Marathi
language discourse as Mumbai. Second event was the rise of Shiv Sena which
claimed to stand for the local Marathi population rather than immigrants from
other states and beyond who have always held power in the economic and political
fields. Much of the opposition to the name change comes from these
‘outsiders’, who espouse their ancestral connections with Europe.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>But surely, it is for the people of a place to determine the name of their
city and if they want to throw off the place names imposed on them by foreign
invaders then who should deny it. It is a European custom that a city is
given a different name by each foreign nation, vis London=Londres,
Munchen=Munich ,Firenze=Florence, Venezia=Venice. It is certainly not a
world-wide phenomenon. We are now in the post-clolonial period and perhaps
it is time to stop such arrogance.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The British corrupted names of Indian cities Varanasi –> Benares,
Vadodra->Baroda, Kanpur –>Cawnpore, Pune-> Poona. Unfortunately
the Latin based scripts are terrible at expressing the sounds of words, but the
most common and most users of these scripts seem to think that there is
something natural and obvious about it. Without some serious attempt to
phoneticise these scripts, I fear that this abuse will continue.
These ‘name changes’ are often re-spellings and should be welcomed. The
Chinese went through a similar process; vis Beijing, Mao Se Dung, Zhou En Lai,
...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dileep Damle</DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=mahajan@HUMNET.UCLA.EDU
href="mailto:mahajan@HUMNET.UCLA.EDU">Mahajan, Gyanam</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:22 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=VYAKARAN@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
href="mailto:VYAKARAN@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">VYAKARAN@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Question about city names that are being
renamed</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">VYAKARAN:
South Asian Languages and Linguistics Net Editors: Tej K. Bhatia, Syracuse
University, New York John Peterson, University of Osnabrueck, Germany Details:
Send email to <A
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It
is a CBS news item: <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><A
href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/11/world/main648623.shtmlp:/">http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/11/world/main648623.shtmlp://</A><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Gyanam<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Gyanam
Mahajan, Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></I></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Language
Program Coordinator, SSEALC<o:p></o:p></SPAN></I></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">ALC
Department, UCLA<o:p></o:p></SPAN></I></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> South Asian
Linguists [mailto:VYAKARAN@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Mahajan,
Gyanam<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 18, 2011 3:19 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
VYAKARAN@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Question about city names that
are being renamed<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>VYAKARAN: South Asian Languages and Linguistics Net Editors:
Tej K. Bhatia, Syracuse University, New York John Peterson, University of
Osnabrueck, Germany Details: Send email to <A
href="mailto:listserv@listserv.syr.edu">listserv@listserv.syr.edu</A> and say:
INFO VYAKARAN Subscribe:Send email to <A
href="mailto:listserv@listserv.syr.edu">listserv@listserv.syr.edu</A> and say:
SUBSCRIBE VYAKARAN FIRST_NAME LAST_NAME (Substitute your real name for
first_name last_name) Archives: <A href="http://listserv.syr.edu"
target=_blank>http://listserv.syr.edu</A> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Greetings
from UCLA. There is a UC Berkeley paper that might be of interest and it also
provides several references </SPAN><A
href="http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~easwaran/papers/india.html">http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~easwaran/papers/india.html</A>.
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>I remember another article which pointed out that the Bombay
Stock Exchange or Bombay High Court or Madras University etc. have retained
their name. I will try and find the link to that article and pass it
on.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Gyanam<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Gyanam
Mahajan, Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></I></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Language
Program Coordinator, SSEALC<o:p></o:p></SPAN></I></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">ALC
Department, UCLA<o:p></o:p></SPAN></I></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
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<DIV
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> South Asian
Linguists [mailto:VYAKARAN@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Thrasher,
Allen<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 18, 2011 2:59 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
VYAKARAN@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Question about city names that
are being renamed<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>VYAKARAN: South Asian Languages and Linguistics Net Editors:
Tej K. Bhatia, Syracuse University, New York John Peterson, University of
Osnabrueck, Germany Details: Send email to <A
href="mailto:listserv@listserv.syr.edu">listserv@listserv.syr.edu</A> and say:
INFO VYAKARAN Subscribe:Send email to <A
href="mailto:listserv@listserv.syr.edu">listserv@listserv.syr.edu</A> and say:
SUBSCRIBE VYAKARAN FIRST_NAME LAST_NAME (Substitute your real name for
first_name last_name) Archives: <A href="http://listserv.syr.edu"
target=_blank>http://listserv.syr.edu</A> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hal,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Do
you mean you didn't hear Madras referred to as Chennai by local people when
speaking English, or when speaking Tamil as well?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Peter
Hook remarked to me back in 69-70 when the push was starting to rename Poona
Pune (or rather, in the unreformed Marathi spelling of the day, PuneM), that the
same people who insisted on Pune(M) in fact said Poona/PunA, in both Marathi and
English.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Allen<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Allen
W. Thrasher, Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Senior
Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">South
Asia Team<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Asian
Division<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Library
of Congress<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Washington,
DC 20540-4810<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">USA<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">tel.
202-707-3732<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">fax
202-707-1724<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The
opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of
Congress.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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<DIV
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> South Asian
Linguists [mailto:VYAKARAN@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Harold
Schiffman<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 18, 2011 4:31 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
VYAKARAN@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Question about city names that are
being renamed<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>VYAKARAN: South Asian Languages and Linguistics Net Editors:
Tej K. Bhatia, Syracuse University, New York John Peterson, University of
Osnabrueck, Germany Details: Send email to <A
href="mailto:listserv@listserv.syr.edu">listserv@listserv.syr.edu</A> and say:
INFO VYAKARAN Subscribe:Send email to <A
href="mailto:listserv@listserv.syr.edu">listserv@listserv.syr.edu</A> and say:
SUBSCRIBE VYAKARAN FIRST_NAME LAST_NAME (Substitute your real name for
first_name last_name) Archives: <A href="http://listserv.syr.edu"
target=_blank>http://listserv.syr.edu</A> Hi, all:<BR><BR>I've been asked by a
colleague in another (non-South Asian) area of the world<BR>what is the history
of colonial city naming in India, and whether it is possible to<BR>reconstruct
what the "original" names for Bombay/Mumbai, Madras/Chennai,
and<BR>Calcutta/Kolkata. <BR><BR>Two questions in particular I have is
whether (1) Bombay was ever called Mumbai by<BR>speakers of other languages of
India, other than Marathi, and (2) when exactly did the<BR>call for renaming
Bombay as Mumbai began? I'd be interested to know how recently<BR>this
phenomenon is. <BR><BR>I know that in the case of Madras/Chennai, I never
heard of "Chennai" when I first went<BR>to Tamilnadu (then called Madras State)
in 1965 and only later was there a push to rename the<BR>city.<BR><BR>I keep in
mind an incident from when I was involved in SEASSI and went to Hanoi
to<BR>recruit teachers of Vietnamese. We noticed that when speaking
Vietnamese, people<BR>referred to Saigon as Saigon, but when speaking English,
they called it Ho Chi Minh City.<BR>So I'm wondering whether this practice is
all current in referring to Indian city names.<BR><BR>Hal Schiffman<BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR>=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+<BR><BR>Harold F.
Schiffman<BR><BR>Professor Emeritus of <BR>Dravidian Linguistics and Culture
<BR>Dept. of South Asia
Studies
<BR>University of Pennsylvania<BR>Philadelphia, PA
19104-6305<BR><BR>Phone: (215) 898-7475<BR>Fax: (215)
573-2138
<BR><BR>Email: <A
href="mailto:haroldfs@gmail.com">haroldfs@gmail.com</A><BR><A
href="http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/">http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/</A>
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