VYAKARAN: South Asian Languages and Linguistics Net
Editors: Tej K. Bhatia, Syracuse University, New York
John Peterson, University of Osnabrueck, Germany
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<DIV>Well said. One minor point. Batata is the South American word
for Potato, still used in Cornwall, England. Similarly Ananas in India
(also in French who must have got in south Pacfic) , although Pineapple in
English. Words do get mispronounced as they travel. Most European
names and many Muslim names deriving from antiquity are common , each takes many
different forms across the world ( Joseph, Adam, Abraham, Jesus, Charles,
Caesar, John, James, .....).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The problem only comes when someone claims the right to preserve the name
their own culture/language/empire gave to a thing. Its a form of mourning
the loss of empire in the case of Indian city names.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dileep (no idea if there was an originally different form, or whether it
means anything, although an ancestor of Ram was Dileep Raja )</DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=lgusain@HOTMAIL.COM
href="mailto:lgusain@HOTMAIL.COM">Lakhan GUSAIN</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 20, 2011 4:08 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=VYAKARAN@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
href="mailto:VYAKARAN@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU">VYAKARAN@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Question about city names that are being
renamed</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">VYAKARAN:
South Asian Languages and Linguistics Net Editors: Tej K. Bhatia, Syracuse
University, New York John Peterson, University of Osnabrueck, Germany Details:
Send email to <A
href="mailto:listserv@listserv.syr.edu">listserv@listserv.syr.edu</A> and say:
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<P class=MsoNormal>Here some of my observations:</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>How names are “originated” may be a part of long debate, but
how they are “changed or modified” also needs a deep understanding of the
history of the subject (City, state, or nation). Sometimes, it might be to
“restore” old glory, besides many other factors, of the subject under question.
Name change, after all, psychologically gives a sort of “mental satisfaction” to
“fix” the past or “restore” or “acquire” a desired glory.</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Factors may be many: linguistic, political, religious,
etc</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Political factors: are already under debate….like
Bombay/Mumbai, Chennai/Madras, Calcutta/Kolkata….</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Linguistic: The only reason was their (New comers or just say
learners) inability to pronounce the name (the way natives pronounce) of the
person, place, or product: examples: Dilli (Native): Delhi (British): Dehli
(Moguls etc)</P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Rama (Ram), Krishna (Krishan), Yoga(Yog), Mantra(Mantr),
karma(Karm), HinDi(Hindi), HinDoo(Hindu), UrDoo (Urdu), Moslem(Muslim),
Koran(Qur’an), Dacca(Dhaka), Cawnpore(Kanpur), Singapore(Singhpur),
Bombay(Mumbai), Jaypore (Jaipur), Adzmeire (Ajmer), Bandhna (Bandana), Shampoo
(Champoo), CuDhy (Curry)…..list is very long…</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>South Asians are also not champion in pronunciations in
foreign tongues: First one is SA Pronunciation and the original in parenthesis:
JaagaT (Jacket), Kaartuus (Cartridge), baalTi (Bucket), baTaaTaa(potato=came via
arab traders as P=B there, a domestic problem), waaskuT (Waist Coat), and the
finally, Bakwaas (F*** Wash)… </P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Religious factors: (Native/original word in parenthesis):
<SPAN> </SPAN>Faisalabad (Lyallpur), Allahabad (Prayag or Kashi), Patna
(Patliputra), Bihar (Vihaar)….to name a few</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Hope it helps….</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Regards a lot,</P>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Lakhan (Original was “Lakshman)</P><BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT face="Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif">
<DIV><FONT color=#002060 face="Franklin Gothic Medium">------------------
<BR>Lakhan Gusain, PhD<BR>Coordinator, South Asian Language Program<BR>The Paul
H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies [SAIS]<BR><FONT size=2>The
Johns Hopkins University<BR>1619 Massachusetts Avenue, NW<BR>Washington, D.C.
20036-2213<BR></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#002060 face="Franklin Gothic Medium"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#002060 face="Franklin Gothic Medium">Phone: 202 663 5753; Fax:
202 663 5764; Cell: 202 361 4473 </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#002060 face="Franklin Gothic Medium">Email: </FONT><A
href="http://by139fd.bay139.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?curmbox=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000001&a=cca8bf57c6d818b11693de8bb79ad0f6f36ee3f549b35619cb7099084a9187fc&mailto=1&to=lgusain1@jhu.edu&msg=9AEB9FC4-E947-41A0-A510-D279D0CCC9BF&start=0&len=1569&src=&type=x"
target=_blank><FONT color=#002060
face="Franklin Gothic Medium">lgusain1@jhu.edu</FONT></A><FONT color=#002060
face="Franklin Gothic Medium">; </FONT><FONT color=#002060
face="Franklin Gothic Medium">Web: </FONT><A
href="http://www.sais-jhu.edu/faculty/directory/bios/g/gusain.htm"
target=_blank><FONT color=#002060
face="Franklin Gothic Medium">http://www.sais-jhu.edu/faculty/directory/bios/g/gusain.htm</FONT></A><BR><FONT
color=#002060
face="Franklin Gothic Medium">-------------------</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 10:13:15 -0400<BR>From: athr@LOC.GOV<BR>Subject: Re:
Question about city names that are being renamed<BR>To:
VYAKARAN@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU<BR><BR>VYAKARAN: South Asian Languages and Linguistics
Net Editors: Tej K. Bhatia, Syracuse University, New York John Peterson,
University of Osnabrueck, Germany Details: Send email to <A
href="mailto:listserv@listserv.syr.edu">listserv@listserv.syr.edu</A> and say:
INFO VYAKARAN Subscribe:Send email to <A
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Calling
Chennai/Madras 'patnam' has parallels, such as the ancient Roman reference to
Rome as just "urbs," " the city," preserved in the Pope's Christmas and Easter
blessing "urbi et orbi," "to the city and the world," and New Yorkers' habit of
referring to their city as "the city," which one occasionally hears applied to
Washington nowadays. Presumably the modern Turkish name of
Istanbul/Constantinople, literally "up to the city," comes from the Turks
regarding the great city on the Bosporus as THE city. Any other
parallels?</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Allen</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Allen
W. Thrasher, Ph.D.</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Senior
Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
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Asia Team</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
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Division</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
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of Congress</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Washington,
DC 20540-4810</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
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<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
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202-707-3732</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
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202-707-1724</SPAN></P>
<P class=ecxMsoNormal><SPAN
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