whenever

[Peter McGraw]

The only time I ever heard this punctual use of "whenever" (i.e., in
contexts such as Joan's DARE cites) was from our department secretary
in Chattanooga.  It was the early 1970s, her age was about 20, and I'm
pretty sure she was a native of the city.

On Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:57:13 -0400 "Dennis R. Preston"
<preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU> wrote:

> Joan,
>
> HAH! Just like I said, you can't say......
>
> Thanks for this South Midlands evidence which is contrary to my own South
> Midlands intuitions.
>
> Like somebody said, must be generational. How could a youngster like me......
>
>
> dInIs
>
> >DARE's evidence shows the use of "whenever" in contexts such as the
> >following to be common in the South and South Midland:
> >
> >Whenever his Daddy died, he took over the farm.
> >
> >That must have been whenever Jerry was a baby.
> >
> >Whenever I was a gal, folks kep' ther' clo'es on, an' th' men-folks allus
> >wore th' britches.
> >
> >Whenever we was there last night, I asked him.
> >
> >He gave me a good supper last night when ever I came within his doors.
> >
> >
> >
> >At 08:38 AM 10/7/1999 -0400, you wrote:
> >>Ron,
> >>
> >>Of course you can't say "Whenever I was a little boy..." (at last not
> in >>the straightforward reading; if there was a time when you chose to
> be a >>little boy [e.g., act like one], this reading is possible).
> >> >>This means that the accused are not substituting "whenever" for
> "when," but >>that others have conflated an aspectual distinction made
> by the two forms. >>
> >>"when" = at/during a bounded time >>        When Mary arrrived....
> (she arrived at a certain time) >>        When I was a child.... (at
> any time during this time period) >>
> >>"whenever" = at/during "alternative" times >>        Whenever Mary
> arrived (she arrived more than once or at an >unspecified
> >>                time) >>
> >>In fact, one could argue that "when" conflates "when" and "while," the
> >>latter being more appropriate for the "When I was a child....."
> since >>durativity rather than punctuality is at work.
> >> >>Since other features (verb marking, context, etc...) also mark
> these >>aspectual distinctions, it is clear why we can dump them all
> into "when." >>Varieties with "whenever and "while" simply keep more
> distinctions on the >>adverb clasue marker.
> >> >>Of course, I don't have a clue about the regional/social
> distribution of >>these matters.
> >> >>dInIs
> >> >>>In a message dated 10/6/1999 5:35:49 PM, ronnieg at STARGATE.NET
> writes: >>>
> >>><< "Whenever" is used as "when" in the south, but more so by the
> older >>>
> >>>generation, I believe.  Children do hear this usage from their
> grandparents >>>
> >>>and 'learn' repeat it that way until someone tells them differently.
> >> >>>
> >>>EVERWHEN is an alternative form of WHENEVER (e.g., "You can come to
> my house >>>everwhen you want"); I'm a little less sure about WHENEVER
> for WHEN, though. >>>Could you give us an example? Would one of the old
> folks say, e.g., >"Whenever
> >>>I was I little boy, we didn't have indoor plumbing"? >>
> >>Dennis R. Preston >>Professor of Linguistics
> >>Department of Linguistics and Languages >>Michigan State University
> >>East Lansing MI 48824-1027 USA >>preston at pilot.msu.edu
> >>Office: (517)353-0740 >>Fax: (517)432-2736
> >>
>
> Dennis R. Preston
> Professor of Linguistics
> Department of Linguistics and Languages
> Michigan State University
> East Lansing MI 48824-1027 USA
> preston at pilot.msu.edu
> Office: (517)353-0740
> Fax: (517)432-2736

----------------------
Peter A. McGraw
Linfield College
McMinnville, Oregon
pmcgraw at linfield.edu