pardon this, codger!

[Alexey I. Fuchs]

Old nasty trick : the Meriam Webster Dictionary.

codger: possibly an alteration of cadger
cadger: back-formation from Scots cadger carrier, huckster, from Middle
English cadgear

Regards, Alexey



On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, Dennis R. Preston wrote:

> First, Ron is exactly right to distinguish intentions (although I ain't
> much for using the official lexicon to support the distinction; let's just
> make the words up as we go along; that way we'll be real scientists with
> our own vocabulary). An old codger, for example, who thinks that "colored
> people" is a polite way to refer to African-Americans may be considered
> offensive but he intends not to disparage, to use Ron's terms.
>
> I still think he should get with the program, and I am prepared to defend
> "should" in applied linguistic terms in spite of Ron's #2. This does not
> mean that I will refuse to study racist, sexist, homophobic language use,
> and I can do so quite straightforwardly, but I cannot conceive of
> responsible study in these areas (quite aside from the study of "internal"
> linguistic factors) as being without value-laden implications.
>
> Last, of course Ron is correct in addressing content. Words are not
> offesnive; uses of them are, and who says what to whom (when, were,
> etc....) is as important in these areas as in any other area of
> sociologically-sensitive linguistic investigation. I am back this summer
> from the Hungarian-side of my family's reunion, and "Hunkey" was probably
> the most frequently used non-function word lexical item. We were all
> Hunkies (by blood or marriage), and nobody got pissed off. Woe to you
> non-Hunkies if you try it!
>
> dInIs (also half hillbilly and also not a good choice to use on him if you
> ain't one)
>
> PS: OK buhTEHRZ?
>
> PPS: What's the etymology of codger? I know that of geezer, but not codger.
> My students say I am one or the other, but I forget which.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>MIME-Version: 1.0
> >>Date:         Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:14:17 EDT
> >>Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>From: RonButters at AOL.COM
> >>Subject:      pardon this, codger!
> >>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>
> >>Dennis Preston writes:
> >>
> >><< [1]. "Offensiveness" is also in both brains,
> >>sender and receiver. ... [2]. we also should probably try to avoid items
> >>which will offend others, and  [3]. I assume, and I think rightfully, that
> >>those who belong to classes which may be offended are the ones who get to say
> >>whether items are
> >>offensvie or not (just like American Poles get to say how to pronounce their
> >>names, and speakers of Polish like me who think we know better can go sit on
> >>it).>>
> >>
> >>Concerning [1], I'd like to make the distinction that dictionaries make:
> >>"offensive" is only in the mind of the hearer, while "disparaging" is in the
> >>mind of the speaker as well. You can find something offensive that I do not
> >>intend to be offensive. But if something I say is "disparaging," I intended
> >>the offense.
> >>
> >>Concerning [2], since when do grammarians concern themselves with "should" in
> >>this absolute imperative sense? Is it our business to pass moral judgment on
> >>language use? "Should" we also not split infinitives? Nah! Speakers certainly
> >>"should" try not to use terms that others will find offensive--except when
> >>they decide that they want to BE offensive (i.e., unless they chose to say
> >>disparaging things). As Dennis knows (because he has studied discourse
> >>analysis and conversational interaction), most people most of the time in
> >>fact DO go to great lengths to avoid giving conversational offense. That is,
> >>we normally DO "try to avoid items which will offend others"--that is normal
> >>linguistic behavior. But what we "should" do is outside the scope of
> >>linguistics.
> >>
> >>Concerning [3], it just ain't that simple. Whether, say, "Hoosier" or
> >>"cornhusker" is taken as offensive depends a lot on context: who is doing the
> >>talking, what are the circumstances, and who is deciding whether something is
> >>offensive or not? Even the worst ethnic slur in America (the "N" word) can be
> >>uttered without giving offense. Some homosexuals are offended by "queer,"
> >>some are offended if one doesn't use it. Some "Hispanics" don't like that
> >>term, some don't like "Latino." I seriously doubt that many people are
> >>offended if a Polish name is not pronounced to their liking--though they may
> >>be annoyed.
> >>
> >>--Ron Butters [a faggot who will be grumpy if Dennis does not pronounce my
> >>surname Boo-TEHRZ from now on]
> >>
>
> Dennis R. Preston
> Professor of Linguistics
> Department of Linguistics and Languages
> Michigan State University
> East Lansing MI 48824-1027 USA
> preston at pilot.msu.edu
> Office: (517)353-0740
> Fax: (517)432-2736
>