pardon this, codger!

[Jim Rader]

This is getting pretty snide.  If you folks in academia teach so few
courses that you have nothing better to do with your time than send
out boogobs of overlong nitpicking e-mails a day, why don't you
actually write an etymology rather than talk about how well you can
"make them up"?  The original author didn't even copy the etymology
correctly.  I doubt that "dInIs" bothered to check.  Easier to sit in
your office and snipe rather than actually contribute something.

Jim Rader

> Yeah, but in this case not a good trick. I wondered if anybody knew
> something better than "possibly."
>
> dInIs (who can make up etymologies as good as dictionaries not especially
> well-known for etymologies anyway)
>
> >Old nasty trick : the Meriam Webster Dictionary.
> >
> >codger: possibly an alteration of cadger
> >cadger: back-formation from Scots cadger carrier, huckster, from Middle
> >English cadgear
> >
> >Regards, Alexey
> >
> >
> >
> >On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, Dennis R. Preston wrote:
> >
> >> First, Ron is exactly right to distinguish intentions (although I ain't
> >> much for using the official lexicon to support the distinction; let's just
> >> make the words up as we go along; that way we'll be real scientists with
> >> our own vocabulary). An old codger, for example, who thinks that "colored
> >> people" is a polite way to refer to African-Americans may be considered
> >> offensive but he intends not to disparage, to use Ron's terms.
> >>
> >> I still think he should get with the program, and I am prepared to defend
> >> "should" in applied linguistic terms in spite of Ron's #2. This does not
> >> mean that I will refuse to study racist, sexist, homophobic language use,
> >> and I can do so quite straightforwardly, but I cannot conceive of
> >> responsible study in these areas (quite aside from the study of "internal"
> >> linguistic factors) as being without value-laden implications.
> >>
> >> Last, of course Ron is correct in addressing content. Words are not
> >> offesnive; uses of them are, and who says what to whom (when, were,
> >> etc....) is as important in these areas as in any other area of
> >> sociologically-sensitive linguistic investigation. I am back this summer
> >> from the Hungarian-side of my family's reunion, and "Hunkey" was probably
> >> the most frequently used non-function word lexical item. We were all
> >> Hunkies (by blood or marriage), and nobody got pissed off. Woe to you
> >> non-Hunkies if you try it!
> >>
> >> dInIs (also half hillbilly and also not a good choice to use on him if you
> >> ain't one)
> >>
> >> PS: OK buhTEHRZ?
> >>
> >> PPS: What's the etymology of codger? I know that of geezer, but not codger.
> >> My students say I am one or the other, but I forget which.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >>MIME-Version: 1.0
> >> >>Date:         Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:14:17 EDT
> >> >>Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> >>Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >> >>From: RonButters at AOL.COM
> >> >>Subject:      pardon this, codger!
> >> >>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >> >>
> >> >>Dennis Preston writes:
> >> >>
> >> >><< [1]. "Offensiveness" is also in both brains,
> >> >>sender and receiver. ... [2]. we also should probably try to avoid items
> >> >>which will offend others, and  [3]. I assume, and I think rightfully, that
> >> >>those who belong to classes which may be offended are the ones who get to
> >>say
> >> >>whether items are
> >> >>offensvie or not (just like American Poles get to say how to pronounce
> >>their
> >> >>names, and speakers of Polish like me who think we know better can go sit
> >>on
> >> >>it).>>
> >> >>
> >> >>Concerning [1], I'd like to make the distinction that dictionaries make:
> >> >>"offensive" is only in the mind of the hearer, while "disparaging" is in
> >>the
> >> >>mind of the speaker as well. You can find something offensive that I do not
> >> >>intend to be offensive. But if something I say is "disparaging," I intended
> >> >>the offense.
> >> >>
> >> >>Concerning [2], since when do grammarians concern themselves with "should"
> >>in
> >> >>this absolute imperative sense? Is it our business to pass moral judgment
> >>on
> >> >>language use? "Should" we also not split infinitives? Nah! Speakers
> >>certainly
> >> >>"should" try not to use terms that others will find offensive--except when
> >> >>they decide that they want to BE offensive (i.e., unless they chose to say
> >> >>disparaging things). As Dennis knows (because he has studied discourse
> >> >>analysis and conversational interaction), most people most of the time in
> >> >>fact DO go to great lengths to avoid giving conversational offense. That
> >>is,
> >> >>we normally DO "try to avoid items which will offend others"--that is
> >>normal
> >> >>linguistic behavior. But what we "should" do is outside the scope of
> >> >>linguistics.
> >> >>
> >> >>Concerning [3], it just ain't that simple. Whether, say, "Hoosier" or
> >> >>"cornhusker" is taken as offensive depends a lot on context: who is doing
> >>the
> >> >>talking, what are the circumstances, and who is deciding whether something
> >>is
> >> >>offensive or not? Even the worst ethnic slur in America (the "N" word) can
> >>be
> >> >>uttered without giving offense. Some homosexuals are offended by "queer,"
> >> >>some are offended if one doesn't use it. Some "Hispanics" don't like that
> >> >>term, some don't like "Latino." I seriously doubt that many people are
> >> >>offended if a Polish name is not pronounced to their liking--though they
> >>may
> >> >>be annoyed.
> >> >>
> >> >>--Ron Butters [a faggot who will be grumpy if Dennis does not pronounce my
> >> >>surname Boo-TEHRZ from now on]
> >> >>
> >>
> >> Dennis R. Preston
> >> Professor of Linguistics
> >> Department of Linguistics and Languages
> >> Michigan State University
> >> East Lansing MI 48824-1027 USA
> >> preston at pilot.msu.edu
> >> Office: (517)353-0740
> >> Fax: (517)432-2736
> >>
>
> Dennis R. Preston
> Professor of Linguistics
> Department of Linguistics and Languages
> Michigan State University
> East Lansing MI 48824-1027 USA
> preston at pilot.msu.edu
> Office: (517)353-0740
> Fax: (517)432-2736
>