question for safire's column [livid]

[Bob Fitzke]

Frank Abate wrote:
>I specifically remember looking up livid in two dictionaries in the late 40s--early 50s because a friend said it was grey-white. Both dictionaries at that time confirmed her definition.

Bob
>
> In expressions like "livid with rage; livid with fury", the image I have is
> that of a violently angry person, with eyes bulging and a deep reddish color
> in the face -- such a deep color that it suggests bluishness.  I think
> that's a reach, but it's metaphor, after all, and color terms are known to
> be esp. prone to extension and looseness of signification.
>
> Frank Abate
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Mark_Mandel at DRAGONSYS.COM>
> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 1:27 PM
> Subject: Re: question for safire's column [livid]
>
> > A. Murie <sagehen at SLIC.COM> replied to Kathleen Miller's question thus:
> >
> > >>>>>
> > My unprofessional guess is that, as with many words, its similarity in
> > sound to another word has caused it to accrue to itself a new meaning.
> > While no doubt it once meant deathly pale, its similarity to /vivid/
> > allowed it to be misconstrued in the expression "livid with anger" as
> > probably bright red. Now we have "livid sunsets" as a result.
> > <<<<<
> >
> > Although this isn't proveable either way, I doubt that similarity to
> > "vivid" had much to do with it. How often has anyone here actually seen a
> > person turn bluish-grey with rage? Usually the face turns red. I suspect
> > that most people encounter the word only in this context, and by inference
> > attach to it the typical color of an angry ("white") person's face.
> >
> > IOW (in other words), I'm agreeing with sagehen about misconstrual in the
> > expression "livid with anger" -- these days maybe more often something
> like
> > "He was *livid*!" (which may lead in future, or even already?, to a
> further
> > semantic shift referring to emotion rather than color) -- but expressing
> > doubt about the relevance of the similarity to "vivid".
> >
> >    Mark A. Mandel : Dragon Systems, a Lernout & Hauspie company
> >  Mark_Mandel at dragonsys.com : Sr. Linguist & Mgr. of Acoustic Data
> >  320 Nevada St., Newton, MA 02460, USA : http://www.dragonsys.com
> >                      (speaking for myself)
> >