Poor Boys

[Anne Lambert]

I didn't realize that "gyro" was pronounced with a [y].  I don't like gyros so,
after the first attempt, I have paid no attention to them.

Laurence Horn wrote:

> To repeat and, I hope, clarify my claims:
> (1) our NYC hero sandwiches predated gyro sandwiches in that location by
> decades.
> (2) the former differ(ed) from muffalettas in NOT containing green olives
> or pimentos.  THey were as described below, with crunchy peppers and
> onions.  I loved heros (note the spelling of the plural reflects the
> standard usage of the time, if I'm not mistaken, falsifing the claim
> embodied in the movie title "A Hero Ain't Nothin But a Sandwich") but I
> wouldn't have even liked them if they contained green olives.  The subs
> I've had in Connecticut and Massachusetts are related but not identical to
> the New York heros of yore.  The meats on a hero may have been similar to
> those on a muffaletta, which I've never tried but plan to the next time we
> meet in New Orleans (Jan. 2002?), at which point I'll be happy to report
> back.
> (3) I see no problem in principle deriving "hero" from "gyro" on phonetic
> grounds alone, the latter being pronounced with an initial [y] or voiceless
> palatal fricative, but the chronological and referential evidence renders
> any such derivation extremely implausible.
>
> larry
>
> Anne Lambert writes:
> >I doubt very much if "hero" can be derived from "gyro." We don't have that
> >kind of phonetic process in English.
> >Muffuletta is as described--chopped green olives, pimentos, etc.
> >I know very little about the hero you describe, or really about any hero.  I
> >always assumed it was just a variant term for the submarine.  Maybe I'm wrong
> >and it's a different sandwich.
> >
> >Laurence Horn wrote:
> >
> >> James Smith writes:
> >> >I've assumed (I know, never safe) that "hero" was
> >> >derivative of Greek "gyro".
> >> >
> >> I wonder.  They're phonetically similar, but ethnically and culinarily
> >> distinct.  Especially the latter; if the gyros sandwiches I've had in Greek
> >> joints around the country since the mid-70's (large pita-like bread stuffed
> >> with shaved lamb or beef from a rotating spit--whence the name--garnished
> >> with tomatoes, cucumber, and a tasty cucumber-yogurt-type sauce, with hot
> >> sauce optional) are indicative, there's very little relation to the hero
> >> sandwiches I grew up on in both New York City and Maine in the 50's
> >> (Italian bread seasoned with olive oil and stuffed with various Italian
> >> cold cuts--genoa salami being the true essential, but joined by its
> >> cousins--and cheese (usually provolone), as well as diced peppers, onions,
> >> and crushed red pepper.  Besides being good for lunch, there's not much in
> >> common between the two.  I'd never come across the "gyro" in New York in
> >> the 50's or 60's, and we were always told the hero was so-called because
> >> you had to be one to eat it all.  Of course, that COULD be a folk
> >> etymology, but if so I have no idea what the true one is.
> >>
> >> larry