why Oriental is offensive

[Herb Stahlke]

I haven't followed this thread, so I'm probably being redundant,
but indigo's interesting bit makes the London School of Oriental
and African Studies obviously non-PC.  Do they know it?

Herb

>>> indigo at WELL.COM 02/09/01 02:44PM >>>
>From one horse's mouth... this is why "Oriental" is offensive to
me (&
other Asians I know):
It comes from the binary Occidental/Oriental which is an
imperialist
division of the world into "Us/Them", "Us" of course being
Europeans.
Someone mentioned Edward Said's work on this; I have to confess I
never
read the whole book (doh!) but people do tend to point toward it
often as a
good source of explanation for this general issue. "Oriental" has
lots of
"otherizing" connotations: exotic, strange, foreign, mysterious
(inscrutable!), & so on & so forth. Finally, "Oriental" is
hopelessly vague
-- where does the Orient begin & end? It apparently includes
large chunks
of North Africa, which is inconsistent with use of the word
"African" if
you are trying to find words to make distinctions between groups
of people.

I am so offended by Oriental that I only grudgingly "approve" (ok
so I am
guilty of PC policing after all) of its use in "Oriental
rugs/carpets", &
this only because I realize that most people, including me, know
so little
about rugs that we could never hope to identify them properly
otherwise:
"They had this beautiful Turkish, um, Persian, um, I don't know,
fancy rug
in their living room..."

Some interesting exceptions:
1. Many PC (& non-PC) Asians in Hawaii use "Oriental" & insist
that it is
not offensive in that context. I guess it's because they are the
majority
there so the power dynamic involved is different from mainland.

2. I think a lot of working-class immigrant Asian Americans
(including many
"Oriental Supermarket" shopkeepers) use "Oriental" simply because
that's
what they learned from somewhere (I would love to know where!), &
the
distinction between "Oriental" & "Asian" may seem a fine one
given limited
English skills, not to mention a difference of perspective on
the
importance of racial identity, self-identification, &c.

So I do go shopping at various food stores that have "Oriental"
in the
title, although I always wish it could be "Asian" instead.

If non-Asians use the word "Oriental" to/at me, I do more than
grimace. At
bare minimum, I *glare*. Unless they have a really, really,
really good
excuse (such as being over 70, or being non-native English
speakers, &c.)

& yes, East Asian (Chinese, Japanese, Korean) & South Asian
(Indian,
Pakistani, &c.) & Southeast Asian (Thai, &c.) are all very useful
-- &
used. I have heard West Asian used & even the acronym SWANA
(Southwest
Asian & North African) but that is thought of as a different
group from
"Asians" & wouldn't be included in "Asian". Where "Asian" becomes
blurry
for me, & I suspect for many of my lefty comrades ;) as well, is
around
Iran & Afghanistan. Are Persians Asian or not? Hmmm...

btw, I get this list in digest form, so if any of this is
redundant, that's
why.

Wow, it's pouring & hailing here! Torrential!
Indigo (in Berkeley, where else?)

Indigo Som
indigo at well.com

Come on home, little darlin
Everything's gonna be just fine
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& all the girls have big ol dreams like mine    ---Freakwater