will/shall

[Laurence Horn]

At 12:05 PM -0500 1/26/01, Mark_Mandel at DRAGONSYS.COM wrote:
>Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU> writes:
>
>>>>>>
>At 10:36 AM -0500 1/25/01, Herb Stahlke wrote:
>>I think I'd probably say "d'ya wanna go" instead of "shall we
>>leave", unless I was being posh.
>>
>>Herb
>>
>Well, there is the danger, as Deborah Tannen has pointed out, that
>the recipient of "d'ya wanna go?" (whatever intonation is used) may
>feel s/he is literally being asked whether or not s/he wants to go,
>when the speaker intends it as a suggestion (or vice versa), while
>"Shall we go" clearly indicates that the speaker would like to go if
>the addressee is willing to.  Still, the former (or even the more
>reduced form, "Wanna go?") is probably more likely than "Shall we
>go?".  But my point is that the "shall" in this case is less
>stylistically marked than in the simple future uses.
><<<<<
>
>Agreed. I call this form the (first person plural) imperative
>interrogative, and that's not just a joke, even though the notion of
>"imperative interrogative" is funny because it seems contradictory. The
>speaker is asking for/about the concurrence of the addressee(s) in
>declaring an imperative from the group to the group.

I'm not sure why an imperative in interrogative clothing is any more
contradictory than a queclarative (Who the hell asked you? = 'nobody
did') or a declarative question (So you're going over there after
dinner(?)), or for that matter a 2d person "whimperative" (Why not
call her yourself?).  Just one more (partially conventionalized)
indirect speech act.

>
>IMHO, this curious, rather anomalous form reflects the use of "shall" as
>performative in giving an order, or in establishing a law:
>
>      He shall/*will be taken to the gallows, there to be hanged by the neck
>      until dead.
>
>      Any dog found on public property without leash or collar shall/*will
>be
>      deemed a stray and shall/*will be captured and taken to the Town
>Kennel
>      by the Animal Control Officer.

Not to mention "Thou shalt/#wilt not kill."
  (assuming the Lord intended the ever-broken commandment rather than
a hopelessly incorrect  prediction)

larry