Dennis R. Preston preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU
Mon Apr 22 12:38:45 UTC 2002

>Yes, /dj/ is close to Hungarian 'gy/ (although /dj/ suggests a /d/
>with a /palatal offglide and /gy/ is just a platal stop).


>The only etymology I could find for Hungarian (using only the web)  was in
>the OED "med. Greek
>Oungroi(Omicron-upsilon-gamma-gamma-rho-omicron-iota)".  I'm not familiar
>with the "Oingar" as a Turkic people ("Uighur" maybe?).  I couldn't find a
>ref to the lir dialects or shaz Turkish in Ethnologue, but they might be
>completely extinct.
>Isn't the -gyar in Magyar actually pronounced "-djar" as in the Hungarian
>name Gy"orgy (George) (Help dInIs!) so the "gar" of the Turkic dialects
>might be djar or dzhar or something similar. I think maybe the most
>common Turkic word for "arrow" is "ok/oq".
>maberry at
>On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, James A. Landau wrote:
>>  Magya'r is a more interesting case.  Our word "Hungarian" is, of all
>things, from some Turkish dialect.  If I remember correctly, it is from
>"Oingar" which was a Turkish tribe which somehow in English got applied to
>the Magyars, who are Finno-Ugrian rather than Turkish.  There is no
>connection with "Hun" in the name.  Note the similarity to "Bulgarian"---the
>Bulgars were not Slavs but rather a Turkish tribe who led a Slavic migration
>into the Balkans.   Eventually the Bulgars were assimilated by the Slavs, but
>the name survived.
>>  IIRC "gar" means "arrow" in the lir dialects of Turkish (those dialects
>from the area north of the Black and Caspian Seas.  In Turkestan, where shaz
>Turkish is spoken, it would be something like "gash" or "kash".)

Dennis R. Preston
Professor of Linguistics
Department of Linguistics and Languages
740 Wells Hall A
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 USA
Office - (517) 353-0740
Fax - (517) 432-2736

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