ADS-L Digest - 15 Nov 2002 to 16 Nov 2002 (#2002-295)

[Dan Goodman]

> Date:    Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:20:31 -0600
> From:    Millie Webb <millie-webb at CHARTER.NET>
> Subject: Re: Dutch language in the Catskills
>
> I have not been able to follow all of the replies here for the last
> week or so, so forgive me if I bring up something someone else already
> has....
>
> I have worked a fair amount among the Old Order Amish on their use of
> both English and "Plain German", and I have heard (and seen, in many
> sources) Plan Pennsylvania German, referred to as "Pennsylvania Dutch"
> many many times.  I assume that (likely because of the German word for
> German, which is "Deutsch") a lot of the people claiming they were
> raised hearing "Dutch" spoken in New York State and elsewhere on the
> East Coast, were actually hearing (at best) dialects that mixed German
> and Dutch, and were referred to as "Dutch" because that is how the
> speakers labeled their own language

I grew up in the Catskills region, in Ulster County, NY, in the
1950's.  And I _never_ heard "Dutch" used to mean anything but
Netherlandish.  The area was Dutch-speaking at one time, became
bilingual (English and Dutch), and then primarily English-speaking.
(Some of the  "Dutch" settlers were francophones from Germany --
religious refugees from Belgium -- and some may have had Frisian as
their native language.)

To the best of my knowledge, "Dutch" also means Netherlandish rather
than German in the New York City metropolitan area.  Including the
parts of New Jersey which used to be Dutch-speaking.

> (most Amish, when they say
> ""Deutsch" pronounce it more like "Deitch").  Many Amish, even though
> their spoken language is definitely more like German than Dutch, still
> call it "Dutch". I cannot understand spoken Dutch, but I can
> understand spoken "Plain German".  -- Millie ----- Original Message
> ----- From: "David Bergdahl" <einstein at FROGNET.NET> To:
> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 8:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Dutch language in the Catskills
>
>
> > J. L. Dillard discusses "Jersey Dutch" in one of his books. (I'm at
> > home & don't remember which one) _________________________________