mort "woman"-- backfisch etymology (was: Irish apples)

[Jan Ivarsson TransEdit]

Wahrig, Deutsches Woerterbuch, gives the following under "backfisch"
1. Gebackener fisch (baked or fried fish)
2. halbwuechsiges Maedchen [zu _backen_; unter einfluss von _backalaureus_ "junger Gelehrter" zuerst bezeichnung fuer unreife Studenten. Junge Fische, die schon zu gross sind, um wieder ins Wasser geworfen zu werden, eignen sich ihrer jugendlichen Zartheit wegen besser zum Backen als die ausgewachsene Fische.]
No reference to English.
Jan Ivarsson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas G. Wilson" <douglas at NB.NET>
To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ADS-L] mort "woman"--article deriving this word from mort "salmon" (was: Irish apples)


> >     "OED2 presents cant _mort_ (sb. #4) as meaning 'girl, woman' and
> >being of unknown origin.  But I believe a lead can be furnished by an
> >awareness of the now dated German slang _Backfisch_ 'frying fish,';
> >cf. its appearance in 'Meine erste Liebe,' (part of
> >_Lausbubengeschichten_) by the Bavarian author Ludwig Thoma.
> >
> >    "_Backfisch_ 'teenage girl' is known to derive from the idea of
> >young fish past the throw-back stage being more suited for frying --
> >and hence eating -- than the adult fish.  German clearly indicates
> >that men could liken women to fish; and this is part of the larger
> >picture of men describing women with food imagery, e.g. _a peach_, _a
> >tomato_, _a dish_.
>
> How surely is this explanation of "Backfisch" = "teenaged girl" known?
>
> Here is a discussion ...
>
> http://www.ceryx.de/sprache/wd_backfisch.htm
>
> ... in which (inter alia) a derivation of this "Backfisch" from English is
> put forth:
>
> <<Das Wort "Backfisch" kommt vom englischen backfish: Ein junger Fisch, der
> beim Einholen der Netze back, also zurück ins Wasser geworfen wird, weil er
> aufgrund seiner geringen Größe auf dem Markt noch nichts taugt.>>
>
> ... that is, the Backfisch = [throw-]back-fish is too small to keep (if I'm
> reading it right) ... as the 'bobbysoxer" is insufficiently mature for the
> man's presumptive interests, I suppose.
>
> [Note that "backfisch" (but not "backfish") appears in OED and MW3.]
>
> Anyway, I'll freely grant that "young fish" > "[young] gal" is believable.
>
> -- Doug Wilson
>