beyond the pail

[Herbert Stahlke]

Bucket is also used, or used to be, as a technical term for a DBMS software
feature.  I'm far enough away from that now, about 15 years, that I don't
remember what the term meant specifically, but it had to do with temporary
storage capacity during sorts and reconfigurations.  I wonder whether the
choice of bucket over pail in this case had an industrial connection or
might have been related to the provenance of the programmers who came up
with the term.

Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf
Of Frank Abate
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 6:25 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: FW: beyond the pail


My two cents on this one -- bucket and pail are classic synonyms, in that
they have huge semantic overlap, but important areas of distinction, too, as
Larry H and Joanne D note, cc'd below.

One observation is that a bucket is used for very large such vessels, such
as one might see in a steel mill or on a "bucket loader", but I wonder if
pail can be used of such very large vessels?

Frank Abate

**************************

On 7 Mar 2003, at 16:25, Laurence Horn wrote:

> At 1:58 PM -0500 3/7/03, Duane Campbell wrote:
> >On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 09:37:11 -0800 Anne Gilbert <avgilbert at PRODIGY.NET>
> >writes:
> >
> >>  While "bucket" and "creek" are more usual(nowadays, at least), in My
> >>  Fair
> >>  State of Washington, I've actually *heard* "pail" and "crick" --
> >
> >I have been watching this thread with hope of enlightenment, in vain so
> >far. Are you people saying that there is something non-standard about
> >"pail"? I have always used "pail" and "bucket"  (PA and NY) as exact
> >synonyms and never considered that there was anything regional about it.
>
> Are you sure you use them as exact synonyms?  I have both words in my
> active lexicon (NY), but if I'm going to build sand castles on the
> beach (LI), I will bring my (plastic) pail (with or without shovel),
> but not a bucket.  I think (although with less confidence) that
> wooden ones are buckets rather than pails for me ("the old oaken
> bucket" and all that), while metal ones can be either.  Of course,
> this reflects the general tendency (cf. Breal, Bolinger, et al.) that
> true synonymy tends to be minimized and that distinct words tend to
> carve out distinct referential niches in a given dialect or idiolect,
> even when these vary from speaker to speaker--remember our earlier
> discussion of the cheap "vace" vs. the costly "vahz".  (And this
> doesn't get into the question of why my grandfather kicked the bucket
> without kicking the pail.)
>
> Larry

FWIW, the Tenth Collegiate gives both "bucket" and "pail"
analytical definitions as well as synonymous cross-references to
each other, which suggests that they're more or less synonymous
but could have certain distinctive features.  For example, a pail is
said to have a handle, whereas nothing is mentioned about this
feature at the entry for "bucket" (suggesting that it could have a
handle but doesn't have to).  Both are defined as usually (or
typically) cylindrical vessels (or containers), but more is said about
a bucket's specific functions ("catching, holding, or carrying liquids
or solids"), which would seem to suggest that a pail isn't limited to
those functions.

In my family's (northeastern MA) parlance, the words are more or
less synonymous, though not interchangeable in certain
collocations (for example, "lunch pail" and "trash bucket").

Joanne Despres
Merriam-Webster, Inc.