Not over till the fat lady sings ... in Texas?

[Laurence Horn]

At 1:51 PM +0100 10/4/03, Michael Quinion wrote:
>A subscriber has sent me a note which sounds like one of the more
>inventive bits of folk etymological invention that have come my way
>recently. But might there just be a smidgen of truth in it?
>
>He claims the expression comes from the Texas legislature, in which
>at one time (he quotes a time around WW2) an opera singer performed
>at the end of each legislative session. Whenever a legislator or
>lobbyist suffered a defeat, he would say, "It ain’t over until the
>Fat Lady sings!", by which he would declare that his project wasn't
>finally defeated until the session was adjourned.
>
>Your comments will be most welcome ...
>
>--

Mike,

This was a question I posed to the list a few years ago, and below
are the responses I got.  Southern stories seem to be very much in
evidence, but no opera singers at Texas legislative sessions...

Larry
==============

Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:04:07 -0500
Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
From: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
Subject:      a seasonal query

(for any season including both an impeachment trial and a Super Bowl...)

Can anyone help pin down the origin of the expression frequently cited in
sports contexts, and occasionally elsewhere, that "It ain't over till the
fat lady sings", used as a warning not to count one's victory chickens
until they've hatched?  Since I've also heard this in what I assume is the
full form, "The opera ain't (or isn't) over till the fat lady sings", I
assume a possibly apocryphal story along the lines of some sports buff
attending an opera (probably a football or basketball coach dragged there
by a spouse) who imagines that the evening must be drawing blessedly to a
close, only to realize the force of the above generalization. Fans can now
be seen on occasion holding up posters depicting a Wagnerian soprano in
full coloratura mode once the crucial field goal has been thrown in the
basket or kicked through the uprights by the home team.  And while I doubt
such posters will be held up at the Met any time soon, I wouldn't be
surprised to hear the same sentiment dripping from the lips of a Republican
senator or House "manager" sometime in the next couple of days.  In fact a
quick scan of Nexis includes a citation in which a financial speculator
comments that "the fat lady hasn't sung yet", i.e. all possibilities are
still open.  But who was the first to capture the allusion and unleash it
on a previously unwitting sporting world?  (I'd look it up, but I'm not
sure where or how.)

Larry

P.S.  I'm NOT looking for the semantically related Yogi Berra-ism, "It
ain't over till it's over", although it would be interesting to confirm
that it really did originate with Yogi and not before.
====================
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:51:09 -0500
Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
From: Fred Shapiro <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: a seasonal query

This expression originated in Southern proverbial lore.  The key evidence
is a 1976 booklet entitled _Southern Words and Sayings_, which has an
entry, "Church ain't out 'till the fat lady sings."  There is an excellent
discussion in Ralph Keyes, _Nice Guys Finish Seventh_.  Keyes reports
several informants who recalled hearing the expression for decades before
it burst into national consciousness during the 1978 Bullets-76ers playoff
series.  One of the informants said "he never was quite sure what this
saying referred to, but thought that it 'was tied to the perception of
those like me who don't know much about opera that when the fat lady
sings, the opera's about to end.'"  On the other hand, the use of "church"
in the earliest known printed citation suggests the possibility of an
origin not specifically tied to opera.
==================
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:54:12 -0500
Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
From: Fred Shapiro <fred.shapiro at YALE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: a seasonal query

My last message may not have really answered the question as to who
unleased the "fat lady" on the sports world.  Bullets coach Dick Motta,
who popularized the slogan during the 1978 Bullets-76ers playoff series,
got it from _San Antonio Express-News_ sportswriter Dan Cook.
====================
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:12:35 -0500
Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
From: "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at PILOT.MSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: a seasonal query

WHEN A CHURCH AIN'T A CHURCH (AND A SCHOOL AIN'T A SCHOOL NEITHER)

Not necessarily Fred. In my basketball playing days (and even after), the
phrases "School is out" and "Church is out" referred to "intense periods of
play or feverish activity in a game (or even in a fight), when the
participants tried their hardest." Such phrases were even used as
encouragment to fellow players. "OK, school's out. Let's get in there and
kick ass." It seemed also (as my invented routine suggests) to indicate
that any "delicacy" was about to be discarded.

This might be the "church" referred to in the 1976 quote, not making it
into print until long after the height of my basketball career (50's).

dInIs (the jump-shooter)
=======================
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:49:29 -0500
Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
From: Alice Faber <faber at lenny.HASKINS.YALE.EDU>
Subject:      Fat Lady Singing

I've always associated the phrase "the opera ain't over til the fat lady
sings" with Abe Lemons, who was coach of the University of Texas basketball
team in the mid-70s, when I was a graduate student there. I have vivid
memories (perhaps spurious!) of a stack of books by or about Lemons
on display in the Co-op (which, in Austin, is a di-syllable!)
featuring somehow the phrase "fat lady" in the title.
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