Dueling dialects

[Wilson Gray]

On Aug 20, 2004, at 4:28 PM, Dennis R. Preston wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: Dueling dialects
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
> We've just completed a survey of over 30 younger St. Louisians (for
> another purpose) but in looking back at them, I find no case of /ae/
> preservation before /r/. That is, all /ae/ (Harry) forms are /E/
> (just as are all historical /e/ and /E/ forms).
>
> dInIs

Oh! My! God! That's the worse news that I've had since the shift of
[aw] to [aew] in BE (in my youth, the lack of this shift was one of the
features that distinguished BE from ordinary SE, among men, at least;
back in the '50's, black women had already begun to use [aew]) and the
spread of the glottal stop from North Carolina or wherever.

-Wilson Gray

>
>> On Aug 20, 2004, at 9:43 AM, Ed Keer wrote:
>>
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>>> -----------------------
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       Ed Keer <edkeer at YAHOO.COM>
>>> Subject:      Re: Dueling dialects
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>> --------
>>>
>>>> You bring up, I believe, the issue of pre-rhotic
>>>> front non-high vowel
>>>> neutralization vs. differentiation, which is
>>>> certainly not constant
>>>> across European-American dialects.
>>
>> Of course it isn't.
>>
>>>>   As a duellist
>>>> who happens to hail
>>>> from NYC, I maintain the classical 3-way
>>>> distinction:  Mary [e],
>>>> merry [E], marry [ae].  -arry names like "Barry" or
>>>> "Harry" (I could
>>>> never understand those "Harry"/"hairy" puns) have
>>>> the [ae] vowel of
>>>> "bat".
>>
>> This is basically the system used in East Texas. I say "basically"
>> because you have to factor in the Southern drawl, etc. However, the
>> St.
>> Louis dialect once again appears to be skewed, compared to others.
>> E.g., Harry/hairy puns are transparent to anyone from St. Louis, since
>> they both have the [ae] vowel of "bat." You know, I've had a sudden
>> flash of insight. I used to know a kid named "Harry Balls." I often
>> wondered what this guy's parents could have been thinking, that they
>> would name their child "hairy balls." I'll bet that those parents
>> simply came from a place where "Harry" and "hairy" don't fall
>> together.
>> Ever play the book-title game? E.g., "Under The Grandstand" by Seymour
>> Harryass. There's a variant in which the author's name is "Seymour
>> Butts." It would be interesting to know whether the variant arose in
>> some dialect in which "Harry" and "hairy" are distinct. Or maybe not.
>> BTW, even in St. Louis, people are a bit taken aback by the fact that
>> "lord" and "lard" have fallen together. Imagine a thousand Catholics
>> in
>> Saint Louis Cathedral praying, "Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lard is
>> with thee" and struggling not to snicker.
>>
>> -Wilson Gray
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No way, the classical 3-way distinction was: Mary [e],
>>> merry [@], marry [ae]. Any other pronunciation is
>>> barbaric :)
>>>
>>> Ed (from SE PA/Philly)
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
>
> --
> Dennis R. Preston
> University Distinguished Professor
> Department of Linguistics and Germanic, Slavic,
>         Asian and African Languages
> Wells Hall A-740
> Michigan State University
> East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 USA
> Office: (517) 353-0740
> Fax: (517) 432-2736
>