Fwd: Re: Montagnards & 9 yards proposal

[Dave Wilton]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf
> Of Douglas G. Wilson
> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 9:50 AM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Montagnards & 9 yards proposal
>
>
> >It doesn't constitute proof--text is better than memory--but it does
> >indeed lend some measure of support, as I wrote. Only the degree
> is a question.
>
> I agree. However recorded proof (i.e., text from the time in question) is
> of very MUCH greater value than recollections later IMHO.

I would go further. Recollections are very nearly worthless. Memory is
extremely malleable and highly inaccurate. But in this case, I don't think
anyone is questioning the recollection of Vietnam vets using the phrase.
It's clear from the evidence that the term was indeed in military slang in
the mid-60s, but the fact that Vietnam vets used the phrase does nothing to
prove that the term is related to Montagnards.

> >The connection with Vietnam is practically speaking almost ineluctable
>
> This is somewhat contradictory to the above assertion. On the Web and in
> personal correspondence I've encountered several recollections -- with
> details -- of TWNY back to ca. 1950 (less detailed or second-hand, back to
> ca. 1940). If recollection unsupported by text or equivalent is of
> significant value one should think WW II rather than Vietnam.

Yes. Just because Vietnam soldiers used the phrase does not necessarily mean
that the term's origin has something to do with that conflict. "Boonies" and
"boondocks," for example, was a term in military slang of the period whose
origin has nothing to do with Vietnam. The term could be a reference to some
other aspect of military life or it could be a civilian reference brought
into service jargon by draftees.

> I think in general hypothesizing without data is useful for direction of
> research, i.e., suggesting where to look for the data.

Absolutely. Searches of literature related to the Vietnam War may indeed
turn up something fruitful. A Vietnam connection is certainly possible,
perhaps even likely, but we just don't know for sure.