Up and down, railways and Oxbridge (was: Upstate/downstate)

[Damien Hall]

On the topic of 'up' and 'down' in directions, various people have posted:

> >Yet apparently someone
>in Bletchley would think of going "up" to London and "down" to return to
>Bletchley.  Can one of our British correspondents check this out, please?
>
> >One of Reverend Spooner's famous sayings was "You have hissed my mystery
>lectures.  You have tasted an entire worm.  You will leave on the next town
>drain."  What is a "down train"?  Is there a corresponding "up train"?<
>~~~~~~~~
>It's always "up" to London, wherever you are in Gt Britain, I believe.
>Remember The Oak & the Ash:
>
>A north country lass
>Up to London has strayed,
>Although with her nature
>It did not agree......?
>
>The Rev Spooner's missing student might be being "sent down" (kicked out)
>of University.

More generally, "up" is generally "toward the big city". Trains in India
for example are routinely referred to in this way (although there are other
conventions, and exceptions): so a train from Bombay to Madras (please
forgive my conservative toponymy) would be a down train (from Bombay) until
it reached some point where its designation would change and it would
become an up train (to Madras). At least that's the way it seemed to be
when I researched it a few years ago.

-- Doug Wilson

RAILWAYS

I can confirm that it's always 'up' to London and 'down' away from London.  As
in India, that's actually official usage on the railways (at least, it was when
we had one national railway system, but I imagine the practice has percolated
to the local companies that we have now, since privatisation).  Also as in
India, there are conventions as to how to refer to trains that don't begin or
end their journeys in London;  I believe it's simply to do with which terminus
is in a bigger place, or more railway-significant, so cross-country trains
probably go 'up' to Birmingham, for example;  but that bit's just speculation.

UNIVERSITIES

On the other point, it's true that Rev Spooner's missing student had probably
been 'sent down', ie kicked out of the University, but, as far as I'm aware,
the use of 'sending down' for being kicked out and of 'going up' for 'going to
the University for the first time' or 'going back after a period of absence' is
current only in Oxford and Cambridge.  (You also 'go down' at the end of term.)
 As in going 'up' to London, you can 'go up' to Oxbridge no matter where you
were to start with, and you're always sent 'down', no matter where you're
going.

Rev Spooner was Dean of New College, Oxford;  I think it would probably be
thought of as snobbery in many, if not all, Universities other than Oxbridge to
use 'send down' and 'go up', and that they would just say 'expel' and 'go to
University'.  Could someone at another British University comment?  Also,
interestingly, New College itself asserts that Spooner 'almost certainly never
uttered a Spoonerism, but equally certainly had a number of curious verbal
traits': http://corelli.new.ox.ac.uk/college/briefhistory.html

Damien Hall
University of Pennsylvania