Redundancy--(in defense of "South Yugoslavia")

[Dennis R. Preston]

Wison,

Of course you're right; since 'pen' and 'pin' are homophones in much
of the country (pert nigh all of the red states), ink pen (pronounced
[pIn] is not redundant. It keeps is straight from 'straight pin,'
also commonly said. It also wouldn't be redundant, by the way, even
in [E] pronouncing areas if redundant is strictly interpreted
(although the pragmatic separation from pig pen etc... is apparently
sufficient keep some of those who write to this list from shuddering.

I jest love it when y'all shudder at the normal practices of human
language in some speech community other than your own. Lets us
sociolinguistic know we've got work for a long, long time.

dInIs

>On Nov 13, 2004, at 3:25 PM, Cohen, Gerald Leonard wrote:
>
>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>Poster:       "Cohen, Gerald Leonard" <gcohen at UMR.EDU>
>>Subject:      Re: Redundancy--(in defense of "South Yugoslavia")
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>--------
>>
>>    I'd like to speak out in defense of "South Yugoslavia." Sure,
>>"Yug-" in Slavic means "South," but once the country Yugoslavia arose,
>>one could be in the north, south, east, or west of that country.
>>
>>     But here's another (non-onomastic) item on redundancy. A much
>>beloved professor of geology at my campus (Tom Beveridge; now
>>deceased) used to travel around the state (Missouri) studying not only
>>geology but also collecting anything else of interest that he came
>>across.. He was particularly fond of collecting interesting signs.
>>One, in a restaurant, was an advertisement to hire a "female
>>waitress." Another of his favorite reodundancies was "an ink pen."
>
>I think that, in this case,  Prof. Beveridge misheard "ink pin," once
>used by speakers of certain dialects, including those of Outstate
>Missouri, to prevent confusion with "straight pin," "bowling pin,"
>"clothes pin," "safety pin," etc. With the introduction of the
>ballpoint "pin," "ink pin" has fallen out of use.
>
>How sayest thou, dInIs?
>
>-Wilson Gray
>
>>I forget the rest. But (and here I'm just wondering out loud) how do
>>these examples jibe with the supposed Law of Least Effort in language?
>>
>>         Gerald Cohen
>>         University of Missouri-Rolla
>>
>>>----------
>>>From:         American Name Society on behalf of Marc Picard
>>>Reply To:     American Name Society
>>>Sent:         Saturday, November 13, 2004
>>>To:   ANS-L at LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU
>>>Subject:      Re: Redundancy
>>>
>>>On 04-11-13, at 10:08 am, Christopher K. Starr wrote:
>>>
>>>Dear Friends:
>>>       Perhaps one of the real linguists out there (my credentials say
>>>I'm an entomologist) would care to confirm or refute my idle
>>>suspicion that the place name East Timor is redundant, as in
>>>(imaginary examples, as far as I know) South Yugoslavia, North
>>>Beijing or East Tokyo.


--
Dennis R. Preston
University Distinguished Professor
Department of Linguistics and Germanic, Slavic,
        Asian and African Languages
Wells Hall A-740
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824-1027 USA
Office: (517) 353-0740
Fax: (517) 432-2736