pig as college slang(was "di?nt" (with glottal stop)

[Sam Clements]

Of course, pig=police goes back to the 1800's.  It just reached mainstream
in the 1960's, as opposed to being invented at that point.]

Sam Clements

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathy Seal" <kathyseal at ADELPHIA.NET>
To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: "di?nt" (with glottal stop)


> Do you know when in the sixties college students, activists, etc. started
> referring to police as "pigs"?
>
>
> KATHY SEAL
> 310-452-2769
> Coauthor, Motivated Minds: Raising Children to Love Learning (Holt, 2001)
> www.Kathyseal.net
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wilson Gray" <wilson.gray at RCN.COM>
> To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 6:05 PM
> Subject: Re: "di?nt" (with glottal stop)
>
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Wilson Gray <wilson.gray at RCN.COM>
> > Subject:      Re: "di?nt" (with glottal stop)
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > On Nov 16, 2004, at 5:09 PM, Beverly Flanigan wrote:
> >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIOU.EDU>
> > > Subject:      Re: "di?nt" (with glottal stop)
> >
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > --------
> > >
> > > As Wilson knows, I lived in St. Louis for 10 years (in the '60s), but
> > > alas,
> > > I was so cocooned by St. Louis U and Wash U (as we called it) that I
> > > didn't
> > > really tune into the local dialect(s).   But I do recall "No I never"
> > > from
> > > somewhere during that era.  I was struck by my distant cousins' use of
> > > "sody pop" on the other side of the river, in Collinsville
> >
> > During my four years of high school, the Collinsville High School
> > Cahoks (rhymes with "Jayhawks," i.e. "Cayhawks"; people said that, if
> > Collinsville had a heart, it would give up its team nickname to the
> > Cahokia, IL, HS; Collinsville had no heart ) won every single
> > basketball game that they played against us, at home or away.
> >
> > -Wilson
> >
> > >  but I don't
> > > recall "youse" (though my Baltimore in-laws used it all the time).  A
> > > colleague's wife here in Athens but originally from St. Louis has the
> > > "for/far" homophony (or maybe reversal? I'll listen again).  Now Labov
> > > claims St. Louis is a "corridor" extending the Northern Cities Shift
> > > southward (maybe to Cincinnati too), but it wasn't back in the old
> > > days!
> > >
> > > At 04:02 PM 11/16/2004, you wrote:
> > >> On Nov 16, 2004, at 3:13 PM, Beverly Flanigan wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >>> -----------------------
> > >>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > >>> Poster:       Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIOU.EDU>
> > >>> Subject:      Re: "di?nt" (with glottal stop)
> >
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>> --
> > >>> --------
> > >>>
> > >>> This deleted tap [dInt]
> > >>
> > >> This pronunciation was used by white kids in St. Louis, back in the
> > >> day. These kids would now, as is your humble correspondent, be
> > >> approaching their 70's all too quickly. BTW, what about "no I never,"
> > >> used by these same white no-longer-kids, as opposed to the "no I
> > >> didn't" used by us coloreds? Is/was that widespread? And how about
the
> > >> use of "youse" by white kids in St. Louis in my day, when everyone
> > >> claimed that this usage was peculiar to Brooklyn, NY? St. Louis is a
> > >> kind of Rodney Dangerfield of dialectology. It don't get no respect.
> > >>
> > >> -Wilson Gray
> > >>
> > >>>  or [dIn?] is what I hear in my nieces in Minnesota,
> > >>> and I assume it's widespread.  I glottalize intervocalically, as do
> > >>> most
> > >>> people I know here in Ohio.  Does anyone say [dIDnt] except perhaps
> > >>> in
> > >>> formal speech?  (D = flap, n is syllabic.)
> > >>>
> > >>> At 01:14 AM 11/16/2004, Zwicky wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> just a warning...  the spelling <di'nt> (or similar things) is
often
> > >>>> used to code a pronunciation in which the intervocalic voiced tap
is
> > >>>> simply deleted.  not the same thing as a pronunciation with an
> > >>>> intervocalic glottalish bit.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> i suspect that ben zimmer's examples include some with an
> > >>>> intervocalic
> > >>>> glottal stop and some with no intervocalic consonant at all.  this
> > >>>> is
> > >>>> not to deny that some of them have glottal stops, possibly from a
> > >>>> catchphrase.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> arnold
> > >
>